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In many ways I find Korean music to encapsulate the worst parts of capitalism, the way they order the younger and most impressionable (AKA manipulable) fans of

In many ways I find Korean music to encapsulate the worst parts of capitalism, the way they order the younger and most impressionable (AKA manipulable) fans of k-pop bands to post about those non-stop in their social media accounts to the point the sites suspect them of being spam bots ("stans" as they call them in modern lingo), the way they strongly push for people to call them "idols" and not just "celebrities", "singers" or "boy bands", the way that even genres that used to be dominated by outcasts like metal are now pre-selected with members that have zero ownership of the band and zero input in the creation of the songs melodies such as baby metal, that is all corporate selected and audience researched, in many ways it's the best example of last stage capitalism of the music business.

sho_hn 1y ago
I understand your feelings overall, but some of it is also rooted in misconceptions. In the South Korean audience, an idol doesn't rank above a celebrity or singer. There's a clear distinction between actual artists (held in much greater esteem) and idols. You can parse the term idol a bit more like "entertainer". They provide a service, not art, and there's usually no pretense at all that idols have ownership over the product instead of merely some level of contribution to it through their performance. There's no need to claim or pretend authenticity as is e.g. the norm in Western pop, even though all the songs are written and supplied by the (approximately true ...) same half-dozen Scandinavian song houses the world over. I.e. yes, late stage capitalism perhaps, but it's also really not trying to hide it either. You can still have a discussion about finite "airtime" and the displacement of more auteur-driven music though. (Also, Babymetal are Japanese.)
- mattigames 1y ago
  You completely omitted the most disturbing part that is much less common in western music, the manipulation of hordes of fans to unrelentingly post about their bands on social media, where is easy to find them complaining that a website blocked them due suspecting them from being spam bots, this endeavor is almost entirely Korean and not japanese despite similarities in a lot other aspects of their music industries https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn6iZoMigM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn6iZoMigM
  - sho_hn 1y ago
    I don't think the Kpop companies really do much to manipulate Kpop fans into being active on social media. At least I cannot think of any dangling carrots or so. The fan behavior may be very real and problematic, but I think it likely grew organically and not at the behest of the companies. There's plenty of other things to judge Kpop labels poorly on, though, including generally terrible contracts with their talent. It's an industry with many dark sides.
    - mattigames 1y ago
      Yes they do manipulate them into being active on social media, among other ways by faking having private messages with them, which of course they will talk about on their circles: "Within the past few years, the industry has pioneered a new way to monetize fans’ emotional needs by creating dedicated mobile apps, such as Bubble and Universe, that simulate private messaging between idols and fans." https://www.nngroup.com/articles/kpop-private-messaging/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/kpop-private-messaging/
mensetmanusman 1y ago
The K-pop industry was explicitly funded by the Korean government to be capitalistic and improve tourism. This is a strategy that worked well.
- mattigames 1y ago
  It may be good for the tourism industry, it's definitely not good for the mental health of the "stans" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhJgv3rEzHo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhJgv3rEzHo

sho_hn 1y ago

I understand your feelings overall, but some of it is also rooted in misconceptions. In the South Korean audience, an idol doesn't rank above a celebrity or singer. There's a clear distinction between actual artists (held in much greater esteem) and idols. You can parse the term idol a bit more like "entertainer". They provide a service, not art, and there's usually no pretense at all that idols have ownership over the product instead of merely some level of contribution to it through their performance. There's no need to claim or pretend authenticity as is e.g. the norm in Western pop, even though all the songs are written and supplied by the (approximately true ...) same half-dozen Scandinavian song houses the world over. I.e. yes, late stage capitalism perhaps, but it's also really not trying to hide it either. You can still have a discussion about finite "airtime" and the displacement of more auteur-driven music though. (Also, Babymetal are Japanese.)

mattigames 1y ago
You completely omitted the most disturbing part that is much less common in western music, the manipulation of hordes of fans to unrelentingly post about their bands on social media, where is easy to find them complaining that a website blocked them due suspecting them from being spam bots, this endeavor is almost entirely Korean and not japanese despite similarities in a lot other aspects of their music industries https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn6iZoMigM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vn6iZoMigM
- sho_hn 1y ago
  I don't think the Kpop companies really do much to manipulate Kpop fans into being active on social media. At least I cannot think of any dangling carrots or so. The fan behavior may be very real and problematic, but I think it likely grew organically and not at the behest of the companies. There's plenty of other things to judge Kpop labels poorly on, though, including generally terrible contracts with their talent. It's an industry with many dark sides.
  - mattigames 1y ago
    Yes they do manipulate them into being active on social media, among other ways by faking having private messages with them, which of course they will talk about on their circles: "Within the past few years, the industry has pioneered a new way to monetize fans’ emotional needs by creating dedicated mobile apps, such as Bubble and Universe, that simulate private messaging between idols and fans." https://www.nngroup.com/articles/kpop-private-messaging/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/kpop-private-messaging/

mensetmanusman 1y ago

The K-pop industry was explicitly funded by the Korean government to be capitalistic and improve tourism. This is a strategy that worked well.

mattigames 1y ago
It may be good for the tourism industry, it's definitely not good for the mental health of the "stans" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhJgv3rEzHo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhJgv3rEzHo