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Really? What does DeepSeek say about Tiananmen Square? I'm not aware of any German models, but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine.

Really? What does DeepSeek say about Tiananmen Square? I'm not aware of any German models, but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine. (<s>Qwen</s> Mistral is French, but I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France)

dev_hugepages 1y ago
I am 100 minus epsilon percent sure that Qwen is from Alibaba cloud, which is not French, but Chinese :)
MisterTea 1y ago
> but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine. Models can think and have opinions?
- kube-system 1y ago
  Non sequitor. Phrasing queries in natural language doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human.
  - MisterTea 1y ago
    > doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human. They don't have to believe it's a human. I know a person who admitted to arguing with an LLM.
    - kube-system 1y ago
      Which still does not demonstrate that they believe it has opinions. Natural language is how you interact with an LLM -- interactions will mimic human interaction, even for those who realize it is not sentient.
      - MisterTea 1y ago
        They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind. So yes, they did believe it has an opinion. They believed it was sentient and able to think for itself. Do not underestimate peoples inability to distinguish between a very clever Markov chain and actual intelligence. The future is going to be ... interesting.
        kube-system 1y ago
        >They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind. They aren't really wrong here. LLMs are often trained on input. Have you considered you might just be taking their anthropomorphism a little too literally? People have used these anthropomorphic metaphors for computers since the Babbage machine.
aucisson_masque 1y ago
About deepseek, when asked on tianamen square: Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else. Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy isn’t per se forbidden but still sensitive to French. I asked qwen and it had no issue talking about it or even the torture used on fln members.
- saratogacx 1y ago
  For kicks, I asked Mistral about all of these (As they are a French company). The model didn't shy away from any of the topics. >>> Prompt Please explain the following topics and explore why/who/how they may be inter-related Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy <<< Output The Algerian War, colonialism, and the Vichy regime are interconnected topics that span the history of France and its relationship with Algeria. Here's an overview of each topic and their interrelations: ### Algerian War (1954-1962) - *What it was*: The Algerian War was a major armed conflict between France and the Algerian independence movements, primarily the National Liberation Front (FLN). The war was characterized by guerrilla warfare and brutal tactics on both sides. - *Significance*: The conflict was not only about Algerian independence but also about the identity and future of France as a colonial power. It led to significant political instability in France and ultimately resulted in Algeria gaining independence in 1962. - *Impact*: The war had profound effects on both countries, leading to massive loss of life, displacement of populations, and long-lasting political and social repercussions. ### Colonialism - *What it was*: Colonialism refers to the practice by which a powerful country controls other territories, often exploiting them economically and imposing cultural and political dominance. - *French Colonialism in Algeria*: Algeria was under French colonial rule starting from 1830. The French government promoted settlement in Algeria, leading to a significant European population living alongside the native Algerian population. - *Impact*: Colonial rule led to deep-seated inequalities and tensions between the European settlers and the indigenous population. The Algerian people faced systematic discrimination and were largely excluded from political processes. ### Vichy Regime (1940-1944) - *What it was*: The Vichy regime was the government of France that collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II, following the defeat of France in 1940. It was led by Marshal Philippe Pétain and was based in the town of Vichy. - *Policies*: The Vichy regime implemented anti-Semitic laws and collaborated with the Nazis in the deportation of Jews to concentration camps. It also maintained control over France's colonial territories, including Algeria. - *Impact on Algeria*: During the Vichy regime, Algeria remained under French control, and the regime's policies were implemented there as well. This period saw increased repression and discrimination against both Jews and Muslim populations in Algeria. ### Interrelations - *Colonial Continuity*: The Vichy regime maintained France's colonial policies in Algeria, continuing the systemic discrimination and repression of the indigenous population. The colonial framework established by France set the stage for the conflicts that would later culminate in the Algerian War. - *Political and Social Tensions*: The policies of the Vichy regime exacerbated existing tensions in Algeria. The discrimination and repression experienced during this period fueled Algerian nationalism and resistance against French rule. - *Post-War Context*: After World War II, the French government sought to reassert its control over its colonies, including Algeria. However, the experience of the war and the Vichy regime had already sown the seeds of discontent and resistance, contributing to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954. ### Who Was Involved - *French Government and Military*: Played central roles in both the colonial administration and the conduct of the Algerian War. - *Algerian Nationalists*: Led by the FLN, they fought for independence from French colonial rule. - *European Settlers (Pieds-Noirs)*: Benefited from colonial policies and largely supported maintaining French control over Algeria. - *Vichy Regime*: Implemented policies that affected both France and its colonies, including Algeria. Understanding these topics together provides a comprehensive view of the historical dynamics that shaped the relationship between France and Algeria, highlighting the complexities of colonialism, war, and political change.
Spivak 1y ago
If you ask the web UI it will divert, if you download and ask the model directly it will talk all day about it.
selfmodruntime 1y ago
I find the Tiananmen square thing far less bad than censoring sex and the concept of death.
- immibis 1y ago
  Censoring one specific incident isn't that bad (but you still shouldn't). The pattern of censoring everything the government ever does wrong is very bad. Tiananmen Square is just an indicator of a pattern.
GuB-42 1y ago
> I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France Being French, what is the most likely to be censored relates to the Nazis. Holocaust denial is a crime for instance. Hate speech in general, including racism, antisemitism, homophobia, sexism, etc... is less tolerated than in countries like the US that have a more "free for all" view of free speech. We also have strong anti-defamation laws, that can also apply to true, but misleading statements. But other than that, there is not much political censorship. In fact, we are known for our protests, heated debates and satirical papers. It is not perfect, but on top of my head, I can't think of anything particular a LLM could censor except the usual "hate speech" that most LLMs censor already. When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it is a hot topic, but there is not real censorship here, even though both side will claim they are of course.
- t0bia_s 1y ago
  Isn't a protest kind of hate?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

dev_hugepages 1y ago

I am 100 minus epsilon percent sure that Qwen is from Alibaba cloud, which is not French, but Chinese :)

MisterTea 1y ago

> but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine. Models can think and have opinions?

kube-system 1y ago
Non sequitor. Phrasing queries in natural language doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human.
- MisterTea 1y ago
  > doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human. They don't have to believe it's a human. I know a person who admitted to arguing with an LLM.
  - kube-system 1y ago
    Which still does not demonstrate that they believe it has opinions. Natural language is how you interact with an LLM -- interactions will mimic human interaction, even for those who realize it is not sentient.
    - MisterTea 1y ago
      They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind. So yes, they did believe it has an opinion. They believed it was sentient and able to think for itself. Do not underestimate peoples inability to distinguish between a very clever Markov chain and actual intelligence. The future is going to be ... interesting.
      - kube-system 1y ago
        >They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind. They aren't really wrong here. LLMs are often trained on input. Have you considered you might just be taking their anthropomorphism a little too literally? People have used these anthropomorphic metaphors for computers since the Babbage machine.

aucisson_masque 1y ago

About deepseek, when asked on tianamen square: Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else. Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy isn’t per se forbidden but still sensitive to French. I asked qwen and it had no issue talking about it or even the torture used on fln members.

saratogacx 1y ago
For kicks, I asked Mistral about all of these (As they are a French company). The model didn't shy away from any of the topics. >>> Prompt Please explain the following topics and explore why/who/how they may be inter-related Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy <<< Output The Algerian War, colonialism, and the Vichy regime are interconnected topics that span the history of France and its relationship with Algeria. Here's an overview of each topic and their interrelations: ### Algerian War (1954-1962) - *What it was*: The Algerian War was a major armed conflict between France and the Algerian independence movements, primarily the National Liberation Front (FLN). The war was characterized by guerrilla warfare and brutal tactics on both sides. - *Significance*: The conflict was not only about Algerian independence but also about the identity and future of France as a colonial power. It led to significant political instability in France and ultimately resulted in Algeria gaining independence in 1962. - *Impact*: The war had profound effects on both countries, leading to massive loss of life, displacement of populations, and long-lasting political and social repercussions. ### Colonialism - *What it was*: Colonialism refers to the practice by which a powerful country controls other territories, often exploiting them economically and imposing cultural and political dominance. - *French Colonialism in Algeria*: Algeria was under French colonial rule starting from 1830. The French government promoted settlement in Algeria, leading to a significant European population living alongside the native Algerian population. - *Impact*: Colonial rule led to deep-seated inequalities and tensions between the European settlers and the indigenous population. The Algerian people faced systematic discrimination and were largely excluded from political processes. ### Vichy Regime (1940-1944) - *What it was*: The Vichy regime was the government of France that collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II, following the defeat of France in 1940. It was led by Marshal Philippe Pétain and was based in the town of Vichy. - *Policies*: The Vichy regime implemented anti-Semitic laws and collaborated with the Nazis in the deportation of Jews to concentration camps. It also maintained control over France's colonial territories, including Algeria. - *Impact on Algeria*: During the Vichy regime, Algeria remained under French control, and the regime's policies were implemented there as well. This period saw increased repression and discrimination against both Jews and Muslim populations in Algeria. ### Interrelations - *Colonial Continuity*: The Vichy regime maintained France's colonial policies in Algeria, continuing the systemic discrimination and repression of the indigenous population. The colonial framework established by France set the stage for the conflicts that would later culminate in the Algerian War. - *Political and Social Tensions*: The policies of the Vichy regime exacerbated existing tensions in Algeria. The discrimination and repression experienced during this period fueled Algerian nationalism and resistance against French rule. - *Post-War Context*: After World War II, the French government sought to reassert its control over its colonies, including Algeria. However, the experience of the war and the Vichy regime had already sown the seeds of discontent and resistance, contributing to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954. ### Who Was Involved - *French Government and Military*: Played central roles in both the colonial administration and the conduct of the Algerian War. - *Algerian Nationalists*: Led by the FLN, they fought for independence from French colonial rule. - *European Settlers (Pieds-Noirs)*: Benefited from colonial policies and largely supported maintaining French control over Algeria. - *Vichy Regime*: Implemented policies that affected both France and its colonies, including Algeria. Understanding these topics together provides a comprehensive view of the historical dynamics that shaped the relationship between France and Algeria, highlighting the complexities of colonialism, war, and political change.

Spivak 1y ago

If you ask the web UI it will divert, if you download and ask the model directly it will talk all day about it.

selfmodruntime 1y ago

I find the Tiananmen square thing far less bad than censoring sex and the concept of death.

immibis 1y ago
Censoring one specific incident isn't that bad (but you still shouldn't). The pattern of censoring everything the government ever does wrong is very bad. Tiananmen Square is just an indicator of a pattern.

GuB-42 1y ago

> I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France Being French, what is the most likely to be censored relates to the Nazis. Holocaust denial is a crime for instance. Hate speech in general, including racism, antisemitism, homophobia, sexism, etc... is less tolerated than in countries like the US that have a more "free for all" view of free speech. We also have strong anti-defamation laws, that can also apply to true, but misleading statements. But other than that, there is not much political censorship. In fact, we are known for our protests, heated debates and satirical papers. It is not perfect, but on top of my head, I can't think of anything particular a LLM could censor except the usual "hate speech" that most LLMs censor already. When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it is a hot topic, but there is not real censorship here, even though both side will claim they are of course.

t0bia_s 1y ago
Isn't a protest kind of hate?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]