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> It’s an embarrassing thing when you realize that those irresponsible tendencies you had in your youth are still with you. To fuck up in a professional environ

> It’s an embarrassing thing when you realize that those irresponsible tendencies you had in your youth are still with you. To fuck up in a professional environment like Apple is like committing some social faux pas that reveals suddenly to all the guests your poor and unsophisticated upbringing. Hard disagree. It reveals to management their own failings at setting expectations. Perhaps their heads were too far up their own asses to actually bother engaging with their team. I know easter eggs are a tradition, but let's be honest. They're also a passive aggressive response to feeling bored and without a sense of direction. Why is that anyone's fault but management and ultimately the executives for yanking their attention away from actual work?

iainmerrick 1y ago
They're also a passive aggressive response to feeling bored and without a sense of direction. That's a very pessimistic view! You don't think they can also sometimes be a sign of pride and investment in your work? Especially the ones that involve showing the names of the developers when you press a secret key.
- sublinear 1y ago
  Nope, I see it as accurate once younger people take off their rose-colored glasses of a time they never lived in. I hope someone from the past reads this and confirms. If there was ever a time for them to be real, it's now. I do agree that pride despite everything else is a factor, but let's not pretend like the past embraced that beyond trying to "team build" or whatever vague and ineffective nonsense. "Buy the ticket, take the ride."
  - svachalek 1y ago
    You mean the classic easter eggs from the 70s and 80s? There were no corporate drones writing software back then. I learned to program in 1980 and have been doing it for a living since 1990. Most programmers were enthusiasts working for themselves or for small companies. Microsoft was like 20 people including non technical staff? Apple was tiny too. They tended to be independent minded, anti establishment types, completely unlike today's crop of youth who spout hustle culture and corporate jargon. Go look at pictures of what teams at Apple, Microsoft, or Atari looked like. It was a very different time. For comparison I guess look at the top scientists at OpenAI or something, do you think they're bored and disaffected while doing some of the most impactful work of their time?
    - sublinear 1y ago
      > There were no corporate drones writing software back then Sure, but there were a lot of army-of-one jackasses who were their own cult of personality equipped with their own brand of "jargon" that became what we have today. Does it really take so many years to deprogram a corporate drone who refuses to acknowledge that label?
  - iainmerrick 1y ago
    I can't grasp your overall thesis here, except maybe some general notion that the world of software is one of class warfare? That's definitely very arguable overall, but I don't think the specific points you make are correct. Jim Carlton's book on Apple ("the inside story of intrigue, egomania and business blunders") is a great read. It feels a bit strange now as it was written in the period the OP talks about, when Apple was on death's door, rather than the world-striding colossus it is now. But I think it describes very vividly the environment where easter eggs like the OP describes were more common. There were definitely plenty of bored, checked-out engineers -- often between projects with few responsibilities, or "on the beach" in Apple parlance. But those weren't the people shipping stuff. There were also engineers who loved Apple's products and culture (maybe to a dangerous, cult-like degree), who wanted to contribute and to add their personal stamp as a mark of pride.
    - sublinear 1y ago
      > those weren't the people shipping stuff I find this very hard to believe. There's nothing stopping someone who is checked out from still delivering what the business wants. This is especially true in a time period when the business may not want much for the reasons you and the article already stated.
- stavros 1y ago
  Sometimes it's not secret at all. I've long wondered who Seetharaman Narayanan is.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
Thanks. I am surprised though at how many of the responses here are critical of my feeling guilty. Kind of back-handed insults? :-)

iainmerrick 1y ago

They're also a passive aggressive response to feeling bored and without a sense of direction. That's a very pessimistic view! You don't think they can also sometimes be a sign of pride and investment in your work? Especially the ones that involve showing the names of the developers when you press a secret key.

sublinear 1y ago
Nope, I see it as accurate once younger people take off their rose-colored glasses of a time they never lived in. I hope someone from the past reads this and confirms. If there was ever a time for them to be real, it's now. I do agree that pride despite everything else is a factor, but let's not pretend like the past embraced that beyond trying to "team build" or whatever vague and ineffective nonsense. "Buy the ticket, take the ride."
- svachalek 1y ago
  You mean the classic easter eggs from the 70s and 80s? There were no corporate drones writing software back then. I learned to program in 1980 and have been doing it for a living since 1990. Most programmers were enthusiasts working for themselves or for small companies. Microsoft was like 20 people including non technical staff? Apple was tiny too. They tended to be independent minded, anti establishment types, completely unlike today's crop of youth who spout hustle culture and corporate jargon. Go look at pictures of what teams at Apple, Microsoft, or Atari looked like. It was a very different time. For comparison I guess look at the top scientists at OpenAI or something, do you think they're bored and disaffected while doing some of the most impactful work of their time?
  - sublinear 1y ago
    > There were no corporate drones writing software back then Sure, but there were a lot of army-of-one jackasses who were their own cult of personality equipped with their own brand of "jargon" that became what we have today. Does it really take so many years to deprogram a corporate drone who refuses to acknowledge that label?
- iainmerrick 1y ago
  I can't grasp your overall thesis here, except maybe some general notion that the world of software is one of class warfare? That's definitely very arguable overall, but I don't think the specific points you make are correct. Jim Carlton's book on Apple ("the inside story of intrigue, egomania and business blunders") is a great read. It feels a bit strange now as it was written in the period the OP talks about, when Apple was on death's door, rather than the world-striding colossus it is now. But I think it describes very vividly the environment where easter eggs like the OP describes were more common. There were definitely plenty of bored, checked-out engineers -- often between projects with few responsibilities, or "on the beach" in Apple parlance. But those weren't the people shipping stuff. There were also engineers who loved Apple's products and culture (maybe to a dangerous, cult-like degree), who wanted to contribute and to add their personal stamp as a mark of pride.
  - sublinear 1y ago
    > those weren't the people shipping stuff I find this very hard to believe. There's nothing stopping someone who is checked out from still delivering what the business wants. This is especially true in a time period when the business may not want much for the reasons you and the article already stated.
stavros 1y ago
Sometimes it's not secret at all. I've long wondered who Seetharaman Narayanan is.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

Thanks. I am surprised though at how many of the responses here are critical of my feeling guilty. Kind of back-handed insults? :-)