3 ms·

English is currently popular because money is always popular

dijit 1y ago
This elides a lot of history, despite being glib it's mostly correct. If English wasn't as easy to learn as it is, it would have been destroyed though. The absolute selling point of English is the fact that since it has no proper rules it's the "glue" of European languages, it's the bash of human linguistics. Ugly, crude, nearly impossible to master if you're not using it daily and all it really does is pin together superior languages that actually have formal rules, but could never be as flexible as "common". Yes, it enjoyed tremendous success due to the british empire, and continues to dominate thanks to the hollywood propaganda machine - and it owes about 90% of it's success to that. But it's important to note that last 10% is important too, and that is because English is an easy language to learn and it is able to evolve rapidly.
- lenzm 1y ago
  > the hollywood propaganda machine - and it owes about 90% of it's success to that Who's being glib now? Most people learn English because it's means making more money - in technology, finance, tourism, ...
  - nicoburns 1y ago
    That probably depends where you live. A lot of Nordic people tell me the learnt English as a kid watching cartoons, long before they were thinking of such things.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    we learn english because it is a subject in school. money does not come into consideration for most people. the motivation to teach english in school is another question however. as is the motivation for parents to pay for extra english classes outside of school.
- yongjik 1y ago
  > The absolute selling point of English is the fact that since it has no proper rules ... Anyone who thinks English has "no proper rules" clearly has never had the joy of learning English as a second language. (Or maybe they have a really warped notion of what "formal rules" mean when it comes to languages. There are no natural human languages in the world that are dictated by formal rules. All formal rules are after-the-fact descriptions devised to explain the language that is already there.)
  - shagie 1y ago
    > Anyone who thinks English has "no proper rules" clearly has never had the joy of learning English as a second language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophony#Ablaut-motivated_compounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophony#Ablaut-motivated_comp... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication#English Tic Tac Toe is the one that I remember most easily... > Examples include: bric-a-brac, chit-chat, clip-clop, ding-dong, flimflam, flip-flop, hip-hop, jibber-jabber, kitty-cat, knick-knack, mishmash, ping-pong, pitter-patter, riffraff, sing-song, slipslop, splish-splash, tick-tock, ticky-tacky, tip-top, whiff-whaff, wibble-wobble, wishy-washy, zig-zag. Saying any of those in the wrong order sounds wrong to a native ear. It even shows up in Live, Laugh, Love. And then there's adjective order... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/adjectives-order https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/... -- If people want a language with "proper rules"... head over to conlangs. https://youtu.be/x_x_PQ85_0k https://youtu.be/x_x_PQ85_0k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil is my favorite (I've got a copy of the grammar guide that is on my shelf of random things next to Random Numbers by the RAND corporation).
  - dijit 1y ago
    English regularly violates its own rules and additionally has no correcting body (Swedish has central body that dictates language rules for example). That's part of why it's so difficult to fully master, and there are rules (sentence structure) for clarity, but there's no actually solid rules for pronunciation (it differs depending on word) or even what words are really proper words (there are central dictionaries that largely agree, but there are also "Hinglish", patois and the other creole dialects). English steals aggressively from other languages, since that's its history. Other languages might borrow some words but there's multiple branches of these inside english. You can use English with only latin-root words, or English with only Germanic-root words and both are as valid english as each other. Easy to learn; awful to master.
- kergonath 1y ago
  > If English wasn't as easy to learn as it is, it would have been destroyed though. I really dislike this argument. It treats English as a mythical, exceptional language even though it really is not. English was not particularly hard or easy compared to other European languages. It did not have a particularly hard or easy structure, and orthography took centuries to normalise in continental languages as well. It had the quirk of combining Germanic grammar with Romance vocabulary, but that’s relevant for linguists, not most speakers. What happened is that it was simplified and adapted over the course of centuries. French was not displaced by English because of some magical language qualities. The French were displaced by the British somewhat, but mostly by the Americans and language followed.

This elides a lot of history, despite being glib it's mostly correct. If English wasn't as easy to learn as it is, it would have been destroyed though. The absolute selling point of English is the fact that since it has no proper rules it's the "glue" of European languages, it's the bash of human linguistics. Ugly, crude, nearly impossible to master if you're not using it daily and all it really does is pin together superior languages that actually have formal rules, but could never be as flexible as "common". Yes, it enjoyed tremendous success due to the british empire, and continues to dominate thanks to the hollywood propaganda machine - and it owes about 90% of it's success to that. But it's important to note that last 10% is important too, and that is because English is an easy language to learn and it is able to evolve rapidly.

lenzm 1y ago
> the hollywood propaganda machine - and it owes about 90% of it's success to that Who's being glib now? Most people learn English because it's means making more money - in technology, finance, tourism, ...
- nicoburns 1y ago
  That probably depends where you live. A lot of Nordic people tell me the learnt English as a kid watching cartoons, long before they were thinking of such things.
- em-bee 1y ago
  we learn english because it is a subject in school. money does not come into consideration for most people. the motivation to teach english in school is another question however. as is the motivation for parents to pay for extra english classes outside of school.
yongjik 1y ago
> The absolute selling point of English is the fact that since it has no proper rules ... Anyone who thinks English has "no proper rules" clearly has never had the joy of learning English as a second language. (Or maybe they have a really warped notion of what "formal rules" mean when it comes to languages. There are no natural human languages in the world that are dictated by formal rules. All formal rules are after-the-fact descriptions devised to explain the language that is already there.)
- shagie 1y ago
  > Anyone who thinks English has "no proper rules" clearly has never had the joy of learning English as a second language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophony#Ablaut-motivated_compounding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophony#Ablaut-motivated_comp... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication#English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduplication#English Tic Tac Toe is the one that I remember most easily... > Examples include: bric-a-brac, chit-chat, clip-clop, ding-dong, flimflam, flip-flop, hip-hop, jibber-jabber, kitty-cat, knick-knack, mishmash, ping-pong, pitter-patter, riffraff, sing-song, slipslop, splish-splash, tick-tock, ticky-tacky, tip-top, whiff-whaff, wibble-wobble, wishy-washy, zig-zag. Saying any of those in the wrong order sounds wrong to a native ear. It even shows up in Live, Laugh, Love. And then there's adjective order... https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/adjectives-order https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/... -- If people want a language with "proper rules"... head over to conlangs. https://youtu.be/x_x_PQ85_0k https://youtu.be/x_x_PQ85_0k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil is my favorite (I've got a copy of the grammar guide that is on my shelf of random things next to Random Numbers by the RAND corporation).
- dijit 1y ago
  English regularly violates its own rules and additionally has no correcting body (Swedish has central body that dictates language rules for example). That's part of why it's so difficult to fully master, and there are rules (sentence structure) for clarity, but there's no actually solid rules for pronunciation (it differs depending on word) or even what words are really proper words (there are central dictionaries that largely agree, but there are also "Hinglish", patois and the other creole dialects). English steals aggressively from other languages, since that's its history. Other languages might borrow some words but there's multiple branches of these inside english. You can use English with only latin-root words, or English with only Germanic-root words and both are as valid english as each other. Easy to learn; awful to master.
kergonath 1y ago
> If English wasn't as easy to learn as it is, it would have been destroyed though. I really dislike this argument. It treats English as a mythical, exceptional language even though it really is not. English was not particularly hard or easy compared to other European languages. It did not have a particularly hard or easy structure, and orthography took centuries to normalise in continental languages as well. It had the quirk of combining Germanic grammar with Romance vocabulary, but that’s relevant for linguists, not most speakers. What happened is that it was simplified and adapted over the course of centuries. French was not displaced by English because of some magical language qualities. The French were displaced by the British somewhat, but mostly by the Americans and language followed.