4 ms·

Lawyers have law school after a degree, a bar exam, legal liability for malpractice, and ongoing licensing requirements. Medicine has medical school after a de

Lawyers have law school after a degree, a bar exam, legal liability for malpractice, and ongoing licensing requirements. Medicine has medical school after a degree, a 5+ year residency under close supervision with significant failure rates, legal liability for malpractice, and ongoing licensing requirements. So explain to us what it is that you "know this for a fact" regarding how they have it easier. Most of the people reading this, myself included, would never have been allowed into this industry, let alone been allowed to stay in it, if the bar were as high as law or medicine.

tkiolp4 1y ago
The difference is that if you fail medicine, it’s ok (it’s hard). But if you fail to get a job because of the stupid “async queue” author’s problem, well, that’s depressing.
- Manuel_D 1y ago
  I'm not so sure. Failing your residency means your medical career is basically done, and you have to basically start a new career from scratch in your late 20s. Chances are you'll have debt from not just undergrad but also med school. By comparison, failing a leetcode interview means you've got to find a new company to interview with.
- thedevilslawyer 1y ago
  How's failing medicine not depressing!
  - bryanrasmussen 1y ago
    failing medicine is depressing in the original sense of giving personal depression, failing stupid leetcode and not getting job is depressing in the more modern sense of the world is stupid and not well-organized.
    - thedevilslawyer 1y ago
      That's like, your opinion. Any argument you can make for leetcode, one can make on the medical certification exam as well.
glitchc 1y ago
Perhaps the bar should be as high as law and medicine if we want people to take our industry just as seriously.
- FpUser 1y ago
  Nope. In my opinion Wild West in software is much preferred model. If one wants to create software and sell it there should be no barriers. It is one of the the very few fields that give chance to simple people with no money to break out and live decent life.
  - joquarky 1y ago
    Just make sure to save up before ageism kicks in.
  - throw234234234 1y ago
    Tbh I think it depends on the domain you are coding for. The field is so diverse across many different parts of the economy. E-Commerce web app sure go for your life -> software for controlling some life support system... yeah maybe I want someone with qualifications and audited standards thanks.
    - FpUser 1y ago
      >"software for controlling some life support system..." I believe there are processes to ensure this kind of software is safe (obviously to a degree).
      - throw234234234 1y ago
        Sure. But audits/processes only catch up to a point. In the end the buck stops with a professional. That's what most "professions" are. They aren't just a service -> they are an accreditation with some recourse which gives them prestige/social status/etc if they have years of experience (i.e. despite the risk imposed on them as a professional they have survived/thrived).
zaphirplane 1y ago
to put it another way there isn’t this much focus on show me you know this weird problem that I’ve been studying for 5 years as well me, your 5 min timer starts now
osigurdson 1y ago
Many people in software have passed through similarly hard gates in the past. An engineering degree is harder to attain than a law degree for instance. The question isn't about these gates, it is about the interview practice once one is already through. Do law or medical interviews include questions unrelated to the work that they do in a reasonably analogous manner to leetcode? Maybe they do. Perhaps hiring is broken in all fields.
- haiku2077 1y ago
  > Many people in software have passed through similarly hard gates in the past. I didn't. I dropped out of school to work at my first job. That's different from a doctor, nurse, lawyer, CPA or PE who have to meet an industry standard.
  - osigurdson 1y ago
    Right, certification gate keeping doesn't exist for software. I have an engineering stamp but never got a chance to use it. The problem is, an engineering stamp or comp sci degree doesn't seem to be particularly predictive of dev capability.
no_wizard 1y ago
I know its not a popular opinion here or elsewhere, but since these interviews are so standard, why don't we have a uniform standard body where I can get a licensure, do yearly trainings etc as a software engineer? It would solve the same problem something like the CPA exam does.
- atraac 1y ago
  For the same reason we have 2137 libraries, frameworks and languages that do the same thing - because everyone thinks they can do it better.
  - no_wizard 1y ago
    I don't think the reason we have so many libraries / frameworks is the same line of reasoning that hiring is copy pasta throughout the industry
- willhslade 1y ago
  I think we do with OMSCS.
bravesoul2 1y ago
Oh yeah. Spoke quite a bit to a doctor who wanted to get into a speciality last year. That shits hard. Intersection of mentally hard, hours demanding and high bars to entry. We have it cushy. Really cushy. Unless you are working for a 2025 AI startup that works and pays you like a mule and uses the word mission unironically.

tkiolp4 1y ago

The difference is that if you fail medicine, it’s ok (it’s hard). But if you fail to get a job because of the stupid “async queue” author’s problem, well, that’s depressing.

Manuel_D 1y ago
I'm not so sure. Failing your residency means your medical career is basically done, and you have to basically start a new career from scratch in your late 20s. Chances are you'll have debt from not just undergrad but also med school. By comparison, failing a leetcode interview means you've got to find a new company to interview with.
thedevilslawyer 1y ago
How's failing medicine not depressing!
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  failing medicine is depressing in the original sense of giving personal depression, failing stupid leetcode and not getting job is depressing in the more modern sense of the world is stupid and not well-organized.
  - thedevilslawyer 1y ago
    That's like, your opinion. Any argument you can make for leetcode, one can make on the medical certification exam as well.

glitchc 1y ago

Perhaps the bar should be as high as law and medicine if we want people to take our industry just as seriously.

FpUser 1y ago
Nope. In my opinion Wild West in software is much preferred model. If one wants to create software and sell it there should be no barriers. It is one of the the very few fields that give chance to simple people with no money to break out and live decent life.
- joquarky 1y ago
  Just make sure to save up before ageism kicks in.
- throw234234234 1y ago
  Tbh I think it depends on the domain you are coding for. The field is so diverse across many different parts of the economy. E-Commerce web app sure go for your life -> software for controlling some life support system... yeah maybe I want someone with qualifications and audited standards thanks.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    >"software for controlling some life support system..." I believe there are processes to ensure this kind of software is safe (obviously to a degree).
    - throw234234234 1y ago
      Sure. But audits/processes only catch up to a point. In the end the buck stops with a professional. That's what most "professions" are. They aren't just a service -> they are an accreditation with some recourse which gives them prestige/social status/etc if they have years of experience (i.e. despite the risk imposed on them as a professional they have survived/thrived).

zaphirplane 1y ago

to put it another way there isn’t this much focus on show me you know this weird problem that I’ve been studying for 5 years as well me, your 5 min timer starts now

osigurdson 1y ago

Many people in software have passed through similarly hard gates in the past. An engineering degree is harder to attain than a law degree for instance. The question isn't about these gates, it is about the interview practice once one is already through. Do law or medical interviews include questions unrelated to the work that they do in a reasonably analogous manner to leetcode? Maybe they do. Perhaps hiring is broken in all fields.

haiku2077 1y ago
> Many people in software have passed through similarly hard gates in the past. I didn't. I dropped out of school to work at my first job. That's different from a doctor, nurse, lawyer, CPA or PE who have to meet an industry standard.
- osigurdson 1y ago
  Right, certification gate keeping doesn't exist for software. I have an engineering stamp but never got a chance to use it. The problem is, an engineering stamp or comp sci degree doesn't seem to be particularly predictive of dev capability.

no_wizard 1y ago

I know its not a popular opinion here or elsewhere, but since these interviews are so standard, why don't we have a uniform standard body where I can get a licensure, do yearly trainings etc as a software engineer? It would solve the same problem something like the CPA exam does.

atraac 1y ago
For the same reason we have 2137 libraries, frameworks and languages that do the same thing - because everyone thinks they can do it better.
- no_wizard 1y ago
  I don't think the reason we have so many libraries / frameworks is the same line of reasoning that hiring is copy pasta throughout the industry
willhslade 1y ago
I think we do with OMSCS.

bravesoul2 1y ago

Oh yeah. Spoke quite a bit to a doctor who wanted to get into a speciality last year. That shits hard. Intersection of mentally hard, hours demanding and high bars to entry. We have it cushy. Really cushy. Unless you are working for a 2025 AI startup that works and pays you like a mule and uses the word mission unironically.