6 ms·

Not innovating? This year they've already delivered the new iPad, the retina MacBook Pro, and are set to announce and deliver the iPhone 5, the iPad mini, possi

Not innovating? This year they've already delivered the new iPad, the retina MacBook Pro, and are set to announce and deliver the iPhone 5, the iPad mini, possibly new iMacs and a TV. And the last five years they created or helped create: The Smartphone market The Tablet market The App market The Locationbased market

neya 14y ago
EDIT: I see nothing innovative with the list of devices you mentioned - 'The new iPad', 'Retina MBP', etc. They are just iterations of previous devices with a higher resolution. The iPad mini is old news, because it is just following the path the Nexus 7 has set. Nothing innovative here. Many talk about fragmentation on Android all the time, just wait and see how much fragmentation, nightmares and hell this Retina resolution would cause to designers.
- andreyf 14y ago
  Please don't argue like that: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
  - neya 14y ago
    Sorry. Edited my original comment. And thanks for that link.
- hyperbovine 14y ago
  What originally prompted you to create an account?
  - neya 14y ago
    Certainly not an argument where I simply wanted to defend an electronic brand I liked. I was applying for YC.
- taligent 14y ago
  The Retina resolution 'issue' has been solved and well understood for a while now. You simply create two images one at original and one at @2x.
  - davidpayne11 14y ago
    I'm a designer myself and what you're telling me is not a 'fix', it is a maintainability nightmare. http://tablettrends.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/the-retina-ipad-screen-is-beautiful-and-a-nightmare-opinion/ http://tablettrends.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/the-retina-ipad...
petewailes 14y ago
Absolutely everything on that list is iterative, not innovative. Including the TV. Even if it's got a sublime user experience, it's still going to be used for showing programs, films and acting as a monitor for games consoles (although probably also a mini-console, as it'll inherit the app store apps too). Still, nothing actually innovative there.
- mbesto 14y ago
  I think you're being way too pedantic here. With your definition you could argue that truly nothing is innovative then... From Wikipedia: Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments, and society. You don't think Apple fits that definition?
  - davidpayne11 14y ago
    By that definition, Samsung is more innovative than Apple- 4.8 Inch Display vs 3.5 Inch Quad core processor vs Dual Core processor 4g vs 3g And, no lawsuits from Samsung. Who is more innovative, now?
    - rys 14y ago
      But why is bigger, more and faster automatically better or more innovative? All three of your hardware choices (assuming the lower level details are understood) have a direct worsening impact on battery life for example and so need to be chosen and used wisely. The innovation in a modern handheld device is about so much more than the base hardware spec.
    - taligent 14y ago
      CPU cores as a performance metric between two very different platforms. Makes sense to me.
      - calciphus 14y ago
        Both chips (and displays) are made by Samsung though...
andreyf 14y ago
In the last decade they've been innovative, yes, but I think your examples from this year are pretty obvious iterative improvements on their current product lines. PG expounded on this once, as well: I was talking recently to someone who knew Apple well, and I asked him if the people now running the company would be able to keep creating new things the way Apple had under Steve Jobs. His answer was simply "no." I already feared that would be the answer. I asked more to see how he'd qualify it. But he didn't qualify it at all. No, there will be no more great new stuff beyond whatever's currently in the pipeline. Apple's revenues may continue to rise for a long time, but as Microsoft shows, revenue is a lagging indicator in the technology business. [1] Apple seems to me one of the scariest companies in the industry right now. I predict that although they'll give lip service to "building great products" there simply won't be enough executives who believe it like Steve did, and like the vast majority of corporations of their size, they'll prioritize profits over everything else. 1. http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
- taligent 14y ago
  Well obviously whoever Paul talked to is clueless about Apple. All of Apple's products from now through the next year or two was designed and developed when Steve Jobs was alive as was revealed in his biography. So this idea that Apple is somehow on their way down is ridiculous. Also all of Apple's releases for the last few years have been iterative.
  - nandemo 14y ago
    > All of Apple's products from now through the next year or two was designed and developed when Steve Jobs was alive as was revealed in his biography. I'm not sure why you think this statement essentially disagrees with grandparent comment. All this says it that there's some backlog. What happens after one year or two?
Mordor 14y ago
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses" - Steve Jobs So, according to Steve Jobs, a faster iPad/MacBook/iPhone with a clearer screen is the opposite of innovation. Apple died when the iPad came out, but they can still grow through a strong brand presence and law suits.

neya 14y ago

EDIT: I see nothing innovative with the list of devices you mentioned - 'The new iPad', 'Retina MBP', etc. They are just iterations of previous devices with a higher resolution. The iPad mini is old news, because it is just following the path the Nexus 7 has set. Nothing innovative here. Many talk about fragmentation on Android all the time, just wait and see how much fragmentation, nightmares and hell this Retina resolution would cause to designers.

andreyf 14y ago
Please don't argue like that: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
- neya 14y ago
  Sorry. Edited my original comment. And thanks for that link.
hyperbovine 14y ago
What originally prompted you to create an account?
- neya 14y ago
  Certainly not an argument where I simply wanted to defend an electronic brand I liked. I was applying for YC.
taligent 14y ago
The Retina resolution 'issue' has been solved and well understood for a while now. You simply create two images one at original and one at @2x.
- davidpayne11 14y ago
  I'm a designer myself and what you're telling me is not a 'fix', it is a maintainability nightmare. http://tablettrends.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/the-retina-ipad-screen-is-beautiful-and-a-nightmare-opinion/ http://tablettrends.wordpress.com/2012/03/19/the-retina-ipad...

petewailes 14y ago

Absolutely everything on that list is iterative, not innovative. Including the TV. Even if it's got a sublime user experience, it's still going to be used for showing programs, films and acting as a monitor for games consoles (although probably also a mini-console, as it'll inherit the app store apps too). Still, nothing actually innovative there.

mbesto 14y ago
I think you're being way too pedantic here. With your definition you could argue that truly nothing is innovative then... From Wikipedia: Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are readily available to markets, governments, and society. You don't think Apple fits that definition?
- davidpayne11 14y ago
  By that definition, Samsung is more innovative than Apple- 4.8 Inch Display vs 3.5 Inch Quad core processor vs Dual Core processor 4g vs 3g And, no lawsuits from Samsung. Who is more innovative, now?
  - rys 14y ago
    But why is bigger, more and faster automatically better or more innovative? All three of your hardware choices (assuming the lower level details are understood) have a direct worsening impact on battery life for example and so need to be chosen and used wisely. The innovation in a modern handheld device is about so much more than the base hardware spec.
  - taligent 14y ago
    CPU cores as a performance metric between two very different platforms. Makes sense to me.
    - calciphus 14y ago
      Both chips (and displays) are made by Samsung though...

andreyf 14y ago

In the last decade they've been innovative, yes, but I think your examples from this year are pretty obvious iterative improvements on their current product lines. PG expounded on this once, as well: I was talking recently to someone who knew Apple well, and I asked him if the people now running the company would be able to keep creating new things the way Apple had under Steve Jobs. His answer was simply "no." I already feared that would be the answer. I asked more to see how he'd qualify it. But he didn't qualify it at all. No, there will be no more great new stuff beyond whatever's currently in the pipeline. Apple's revenues may continue to rise for a long time, but as Microsoft shows, revenue is a lagging indicator in the technology business. [1] Apple seems to me one of the scariest companies in the industry right now. I predict that although they'll give lip service to "building great products" there simply won't be enough executives who believe it like Steve did, and like the vast majority of corporations of their size, they'll prioritize profits over everything else. 1. http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html http://paulgraham.com/ambitious.html

taligent 14y ago
Well obviously whoever Paul talked to is clueless about Apple. All of Apple's products from now through the next year or two was designed and developed when Steve Jobs was alive as was revealed in his biography. So this idea that Apple is somehow on their way down is ridiculous. Also all of Apple's releases for the last few years have been iterative.
- nandemo 14y ago
  > All of Apple's products from now through the next year or two was designed and developed when Steve Jobs was alive as was revealed in his biography. I'm not sure why you think this statement essentially disagrees with grandparent comment. All this says it that there's some backlog. What happens after one year or two?

Mordor 14y ago

"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses" - Steve Jobs So, according to Steve Jobs, a faster iPad/MacBook/iPhone with a clearer screen is the opposite of innovation. Apple died when the iPad came out, but they can still grow through a strong brand presence and law suits.