4 ms·

In NONE of those cases did anybody use a pinch gesture to zoom anything. So no. None of those legally count as prior art.

jrmg 14y ago
Look in the 1998 video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo) around 4:30. You could perhaps argue that's 'scaling' not 'zooming', but that's a very pedantic position, and not one I personally would entertain.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  Direct link to the pinch to zoom part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dmmxVA5xhuo#t=267s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v... So, tacking on a "BUT ON A CAPACITATIVE SCREEN" got Apple the patent?
  - deltaqueue 14y ago
    Hardly. The screen on Buxton's multi-touch tablet in '85 was capacitive! The patent system is so broken.
- Someone 14y ago
  Devil's advocate: It is neigh impossible to judge from the video, but to me, the video shows less of a direct link between hand movement and what happens on the display. It is not as if the hand really grabs the screen. I also got the impression that he had to issue a command, chosen from the top of the screen (outside the video image) to switch from scaling to rotation. Another argument could be that this user does not actually seem to touch the screen (at least, that is my impression). It is likely that all these are due to technological limitations, but if I had to defend this as "not prior art" in court, I would try and work from those observations. There is little else to argue about, as a lot of the interactions are there, in a primitive (technologically) way.
anthonyb 14y ago
Well, you'll see what you want to see, I guess - but 50 seconds into http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo&feature=player_detailpage#t=50s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo&feature=playe... He makes a pinch gesture, and the circle on the CRT gets bigger and smaller. If that's not pinch to zoom, or the precursor to it, I don't know what is. Which is the whole problem with Apple's case. They seem to like to pretend that they invented everything that's used on the iPhone, but this sort of research has been going on for decades.
- anthonyb 14y ago
  update: I think the most striking thing about watching that pinch to zoom thing is that he's doing it idly while thinking/talking about something else - it's no big deal for him. I suspect that he's been using gestures like it for quite a while at that point.
- sc00ter 14y ago
  You're right about one thing - you see what you want to see. I'd swear if asked that he's using his thumb and finger to draw a rectangle shape on the desk representing the keyboard he describes at the same time, but there's no denying the circle on the screen, even if just a shape bounding his touch points, rather than an object he selected and zoomed. The later clip with the two fingered multitouch zoom of the person that recoiledsnake links to is more compelling, even if the gesture doesn't quite match that we know as pinch to zoom.
creamyhorror 14y ago
How different is "scaling" an image from "zooming" a browser page? Are they different at all? Because scaling a figure is exactly what Kruger demonstrates in the linked video at 4:30, as the other commenters have pointed out. Furthermore, it looks like he may be using a touch surface in addition to IR/video cameras, because he can draw strokes on-screen with his finger while his whole silhouette is projected. (A capacitative touchscreen or not, I don't know. Maybe the cameras have good depth perception.) Let's not mince words, "pinching" is equivalent to moving two fingertips together, and "zooming" is scaling. I also find striking the little crawling/flying sprite his silhouette plays with, starting at 3:34. We're seeing something that should be in a Kinect game, 20+ years before the Kinect. He speaks eloquently about how natural it is for humans to expect behaviours in the real world to translate to the virtual world, when they interact with images on a TV screen. His exposition is full of so many casually demonstrated possibilities, each of which could probably be patented in our current environment. This guy (probably) didn't - leaving them open to free, public use - and we should be thankful for that.
decode 14y ago
In addition to the other examples, there's very clear one-handed pinch-to-scale at 6:30 in this video from 1991: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5772530828816089246 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5772530828816089246

jrmg 14y ago

Look in the 1998 video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo http://youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo) around 4:30. You could perhaps argue that's 'scaling' not 'zooming', but that's a very pedantic position, and not one I personally would entertain.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
recoiledsnake 14y ago
Direct link to the pinch to zoom part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dmmxVA5xhuo#t=267s http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v... So, tacking on a "BUT ON A CAPACITATIVE SCREEN" got Apple the patent?
- deltaqueue 14y ago
  Hardly. The screen on Buxton's multi-touch tablet in '85 was capacitive! The patent system is so broken.
Someone 14y ago
Devil's advocate: It is neigh impossible to judge from the video, but to me, the video shows less of a direct link between hand movement and what happens on the display. It is not as if the hand really grabs the screen. I also got the impression that he had to issue a command, chosen from the top of the screen (outside the video image) to switch from scaling to rotation. Another argument could be that this user does not actually seem to touch the screen (at least, that is my impression). It is likely that all these are due to technological limitations, but if I had to defend this as "not prior art" in court, I would try and work from those observations. There is little else to argue about, as a lot of the interactions are there, in a primitive (technologically) way.

anthonyb 14y ago

Well, you'll see what you want to see, I guess - but 50 seconds into http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo&feature=player_detailpage#t=50s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmmxVA5xhuo&feature=playe... He makes a pinch gesture, and the circle on the CRT gets bigger and smaller. If that's not pinch to zoom, or the precursor to it, I don't know what is. Which is the whole problem with Apple's case. They seem to like to pretend that they invented everything that's used on the iPhone, but this sort of research has been going on for decades.

anthonyb 14y ago
update: I think the most striking thing about watching that pinch to zoom thing is that he's doing it idly while thinking/talking about something else - it's no big deal for him. I suspect that he's been using gestures like it for quite a while at that point.
sc00ter 14y ago
You're right about one thing - you see what you want to see. I'd swear if asked that he's using his thumb and finger to draw a rectangle shape on the desk representing the keyboard he describes at the same time, but there's no denying the circle on the screen, even if just a shape bounding his touch points, rather than an object he selected and zoomed. The later clip with the two fingered multitouch zoom of the person that recoiledsnake links to is more compelling, even if the gesture doesn't quite match that we know as pinch to zoom.

creamyhorror 14y ago

How different is "scaling" an image from "zooming" a browser page? Are they different at all? Because scaling a figure is exactly what Kruger demonstrates in the linked video at 4:30, as the other commenters have pointed out. Furthermore, it looks like he may be using a touch surface in addition to IR/video cameras, because he can draw strokes on-screen with his finger while his whole silhouette is projected. (A capacitative touchscreen or not, I don't know. Maybe the cameras have good depth perception.) Let's not mince words, "pinching" is equivalent to moving two fingertips together, and "zooming" is scaling. I also find striking the little crawling/flying sprite his silhouette plays with, starting at 3:34. We're seeing something that should be in a Kinect game, 20+ years before the Kinect. He speaks eloquently about how natural it is for humans to expect behaviours in the real world to translate to the virtual world, when they interact with images on a TV screen. His exposition is full of so many casually demonstrated possibilities, each of which could probably be patented in our current environment. This guy (probably) didn't - leaving them open to free, public use - and we should be thankful for that.

decode 14y ago

In addition to the other examples, there's very clear one-handed pinch-to-scale at 6:30 in this video from 1991: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5772530828816089246 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5772530828816089246