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I guess, but Amazon gets me stuff tomorrow or the next day, reliably, week in and week out. Yeah, I could find this stuff elsewhere on the internet. But not f

by ajross 1y ago

I guess, but Amazon gets me stuff tomorrow or the next day, reliably, week in and week out. Yeah, I could find this stuff elsewhere on the internet. But not for Tuesday delivery. And not without opening another account. Also, right now, often only by paying a tariff-adjacent fee to cover the import costs of the vendors that didn't have the foresight to pre-stock imports like Amazon did. People who want to write stuff like this really need to reckon with the fact that Amazon is and remains the superior product, and by a very significant degree. They're not winning because they "hate democracy" or are "full-stop evil" or whatever. They're winning because they're the best.

fred_is_fred 1y ago
Canceling my Prime account mainly meant I bought less stuff overall. A win for my wallet and the planet in the end. I need zero friction in my life for healthy eating and exercise, not for buying crap from a Chinese brand of the week (Glorf, Qerdu, Plund or whatever).
- ajross 1y ago
  > Canceling my Prime account mainly meant I bought less stuff overall. Which sounds like an agreement with my point, no? Buying stuff without Amazon was in aggregate "more expensive" for you in the broader sense of value that includes effort/experience/whatever. So you didn't. And, bravo? I'm all for efficiency and reasonable asceticism, and likely agree with you about the general consumerist bent of our society. All I'm saying is that constitutes an argument in FAVOR of Amazon as a retailer product, and not an indictment.
tenuousemphasis 1y ago
Humans survived up until about 20 years ago without free 2-day shipping. You'll be fine. Or you could compromise your morals for convenience, I guess.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
  It's not free. It's baked into the price.
  - BenjiWiebe 1y ago
    It's baked into the price, but I can buy a free shipping item cheaper from Amazon than what the shipping alone would cost, if I just went to FedEx/UPS myself.
no_wizard 1y ago
This is the reality. I have moved anything I don’t need quickly off Amazon as much as reasonably possible, and I do avoid some things from Amazon as well, but for too many things they’re the cheapest and fastest option, or the 2nd cheapest and fastest option. Also if I think there is a reasonably high chance I’ll return an item, I also go through Amazon, because they haven’t once in 20 years I’ve been using them giving me an issue, charged a restocking fee etc. Other online shops simply don’t match enough of these Amazon value prop to sway me over
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  My take is that Walmart.com comes pretty close. When I was driving through Pennsylvania two weeks back I saw a huge Walmart.com warehouse right next to an Amazon warehouse. The last mile delivery service of the two seems close to identical (though Walmart+ disingenuously offers "free" delivery from my local store that expect you to tip the driver. [1]) Amazon often costs 5 cents less and you might find that all the issues of Bocci the Rock are at Amazon and one is missing from Walmart, but Walmart is taking the fight to them. For photography stuff in particular, I buy from B&H, Adorama or direct from vendors such as Red River Paper. Often the prices are better than Amazon and the service is much better (e.g. the owner of the later has schooled me on details of papers and printing that most people couldn't imagine) [1] Not against giving the tip, just against saying I don't like the comparison against free shipping from other vendors.
  - ajross 1y ago
    FWIW, my suspicion is that people motivated by "Amazon is full-stop evil and an enemy of Civil Rights, Human Rights, Workers, Small Businesses, and Democracy"[1] would be even less motivated to shop at the temple of Sam Walton. But even so, I just checked and of the last 12 items in my Amazon purchase history, Walmart.com loses on every one of them before shipping is included. They're not really in the game absent externalities like location or specific product. [1] Not hyperbole: those are the sections in the linked article!
    - PaulHoule 1y ago
SlowTao 1y ago
This statement is not an attack on your character or being just a broad generalization. The biggest addiction of the modern era is convenience. Once people have it, it is very difficult to give up. We are all addicted to this, we aren't running this site via the letters column in a newspaper, because of convenience. But it also means we tend to ignore the negatives of said services. Your point of them winning because they're the best, that can also be true. But because of that and the convenience addiction they provide, we let them get away with all the other stuff. I'm not saying this is an excuse to use Amazon, I have never used it. I am just saying it is a hard hurdle for some to overcome.
ezst 1y ago
And that's kind of an issue. Amazon effectively has a monopoly in this space, and competing at a similar level just is not possible anymore. And Amazon is so big that, even when you have a better product and service, it can buy you off¹. ¹: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souq_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souq_(company)
viraptor 1y ago
Amazon enables us to buy lots of things we just wouldn't if there was just a little bit more of friction. I'm not sure it's an overall positive that they have next day delivery. We'd definitely be better overall if Amazon didn't undermine smaller shops using discounts only they can afford long term.
agnishom 1y ago
"They're winning because they're the best." They are also actively preventing other marketplaces from being better. For example, for exclusive audiobooks on audible, the producers are paid 40% but only 25% for non-exclusive ones.

by ajross 1y ago

fred_is_fred 1y ago

Canceling my Prime account mainly meant I bought less stuff overall. A win for my wallet and the planet in the end. I need zero friction in my life for healthy eating and exercise, not for buying crap from a Chinese brand of the week (Glorf, Qerdu, Plund or whatever).

ajross 1y ago
> Canceling my Prime account mainly meant I bought less stuff overall. Which sounds like an agreement with my point, no? Buying stuff without Amazon was in aggregate "more expensive" for you in the broader sense of value that includes effort/experience/whatever. So you didn't. And, bravo? I'm all for efficiency and reasonable asceticism, and likely agree with you about the general consumerist bent of our society. All I'm saying is that constitutes an argument in FAVOR of Amazon as a retailer product, and not an indictment.

tenuousemphasis 1y ago

Humans survived up until about 20 years ago without free 2-day shipping. You'll be fine. Or you could compromise your morals for convenience, I guess.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
It's not free. It's baked into the price.
- BenjiWiebe 1y ago
  It's baked into the price, but I can buy a free shipping item cheaper from Amazon than what the shipping alone would cost, if I just went to FedEx/UPS myself.

no_wizard 1y ago

This is the reality. I have moved anything I don’t need quickly off Amazon as much as reasonably possible, and I do avoid some things from Amazon as well, but for too many things they’re the cheapest and fastest option, or the 2nd cheapest and fastest option. Also if I think there is a reasonably high chance I’ll return an item, I also go through Amazon, because they haven’t once in 20 years I’ve been using them giving me an issue, charged a restocking fee etc. Other online shops simply don’t match enough of these Amazon value prop to sway me over

PaulHoule 1y ago
My take is that Walmart.com comes pretty close. When I was driving through Pennsylvania two weeks back I saw a huge Walmart.com warehouse right next to an Amazon warehouse. The last mile delivery service of the two seems close to identical (though Walmart+ disingenuously offers "free" delivery from my local store that expect you to tip the driver. [1]) Amazon often costs 5 cents less and you might find that all the issues of Bocci the Rock are at Amazon and one is missing from Walmart, but Walmart is taking the fight to them. For photography stuff in particular, I buy from B&H, Adorama or direct from vendors such as Red River Paper. Often the prices are better than Amazon and the service is much better (e.g. the owner of the later has schooled me on details of papers and printing that most people couldn't imagine) [1] Not against giving the tip, just against saying I don't like the comparison against free shipping from other vendors.
- ajross 1y ago
  FWIW, my suspicion is that people motivated by "Amazon is full-stop evil and an enemy of Civil Rights, Human Rights, Workers, Small Businesses, and Democracy"[1] would be even less motivated to shop at the temple of Sam Walton. But even so, I just checked and of the last 12 items in my Amazon purchase history, Walmart.com loses on every one of them before shipping is included. They're not really in the game absent externalities like location or specific product. [1] Not hyperbole: those are the sections in the linked article!
  - PaulHoule 1y ago

SlowTao 1y ago

This statement is not an attack on your character or being just a broad generalization. The biggest addiction of the modern era is convenience. Once people have it, it is very difficult to give up. We are all addicted to this, we aren't running this site via the letters column in a newspaper, because of convenience. But it also means we tend to ignore the negatives of said services. Your point of them winning because they're the best, that can also be true. But because of that and the convenience addiction they provide, we let them get away with all the other stuff. I'm not saying this is an excuse to use Amazon, I have never used it. I am just saying it is a hard hurdle for some to overcome.

ezst 1y ago

And that's kind of an issue. Amazon effectively has a monopoly in this space, and competing at a similar level just is not possible anymore. And Amazon is so big that, even when you have a better product and service, it can buy you off¹. ¹: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souq_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souq_(company)

viraptor 1y ago

Amazon enables us to buy lots of things we just wouldn't if there was just a little bit more of friction. I'm not sure it's an overall positive that they have next day delivery. We'd definitely be better overall if Amazon didn't undermine smaller shops using discounts only they can afford long term.

agnishom 1y ago

"They're winning because they're the best." They are also actively preventing other marketplaces from being better. For example, for exclusive audiobooks on audible, the producers are paid 40% but only 25% for non-exclusive ones.