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Good lessons. Over the past few years, I've managed to convince (and occasionally demonstrate) to my kids that "you'll be bad at anything new" and that they on

Good lessons. Over the past few years, I've managed to convince (and occasionally demonstrate) to my kids that "you'll be bad at anything new" and that they only way to get better is practice. As a result, when other kids have made fun of them for failing, they rebut with "I've never done this before! I'll get better!" which is awesome.. being able to handle failure, acknowledge it as failure, and then figure out how to get better. If you can get and hold onto that mindset, it's kinda awesome.

kaycebasques 1y ago
"Sucking at something is the first step towards being kinda good at something." --- Jake the Dog
- OjotCewIo 1y ago
  Counterpoint: you'll stop enjoying a new hobby, like learning to play the guitar, when you decide to get serious about it.
  - unclad5968 1y ago
    This hasnt my been my experience. I continue to love basketball despite being bad at it for years regardless of how much "serious" training I do.
  - dceddia 1y ago
    If it turns into treating it as a “should” then my experience is yes, definitely, that’s a death knell for basically anything. Without the “should” it continues to be fun. The trick is threading that needle.
    - SlowTao 1y ago
      It is said that God wrote the entire language for to use in a book and that we shall model ourselves off of it. Once it was done, God turns his back on the book and Satan sneaked in and added two words - "Should" and "Aught".
  - johnfn 1y ago
    Been writing code for 25 years, 15 professional. Still enjoy it just as much.
  - esteth 1y ago
    In my experience this is more related to treating the hobby like a chore or job instead of doing it for the fun of it, even though you're bad at it. I think the relationship is kinda the other way around - you'll feel like your hobby is "serious" when you stop having fun with it.
RaftPeople 1y ago
I don't remember who said this but I really like this quote: "What would you do if you knew you would not fail?"
- moomoo11 1y ago
  win
- SlowTao 1y ago
  I would argue there is no way to make it that you do not fail in some way. ;)
  - cutemonster 1y ago
    Maybe: "What would you do if reasonably soon you would get really good at it" instead?
  - RaftPeople 1y ago
    > I would argue there is no way to make it that you do not fail in some way. ;) True, but I think the quote was more about not worrying about the outcome just do what you really want to do.
HellDunkel 1y ago
Chapeau- i‘ll copy what you did here.
OjotCewIo 1y ago
> you'll be bad at anything new I disagree. Innate talent / affinity and transferable experience exist. I agree with "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration"; however, given equal effort, people with innate talent are going to win over people with no or less talent by a wide margin. This applies to everything. Gym / sports performance, muscle growth, work that needs IQ, work that needs EQ, life events that need resilience, general happiness, everything. Genetics is hugely definitive. And I'm convinced some people bounce back more easily after a failure because failure is genuinely less hurtful for them. They don't need to "hold onto that mindset"; they just have it.
- majormajor 1y ago
  > I disagree. Innate talent / affinity and transferable experience exist. I agree with "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration"; however, given equal effort, people with innate talent are going to win over people with no or less talent by a wide margin. I think you are misreading the person you're replying to. They aren't saying "everybody can be equally good at everything with practice." They're saying "don't quit just because you aren't great on day 1." First time playing basketball even if you've played soccer a ton and have good general athletic ability? Don't expect to hold your own if joining a game being played by people who play every week. First time doing woodworking even if you have an electrical engineering background and the methodicalness is not foreign to you? Don't expect your first table to be stunning. Still gonna be bad at it compared to people with more practice! Honestly, if you think you're great at something the first time you try it, you probably just don't know what being great at it actually looks like. (It could even be "similar result, but better in some hidden ways, and done in 1/10th the time.") But if you believe that you'll get better at it with practice, you'll keep doing it. If you believe "guess I just don't have innate ability here" you'll give up and never get good.
  - OjotCewIo 1y ago
    > I think you are misreading the person you're replying to. [...] They're saying "don't quit just because you aren't great on day 1." That's not what they're saying. They literally wrote, "you'll be bad at anything new". That's what I disagreed with. There are people who are great at something new (for them), and catch up with (and surpass) old-timers incredibly quickly. And their learning experience -- not that it doesn't take effort -- is generally enjoyable, exactly because they succeed from very early on. I've witnessed this with at least two colleagues. Entered completely new fields (one of them repeatedly), and in a few weeks, surpassed old-timers in those fields. These are the guys who tend to be promoted to senior principal or distinguished software engineers. > First time playing basketball even if you've played soccer a ton and have good general athletic ability? Don't expect to hold your own if joining a game being played by people who play every week. Do expect to mostly catch up with them in 1-2 months! (In my high school class, the soccer team was effectively identical to the basketball team.) > and done in 1/10th the time I agree with this; yes. But my point is that, for some people, approaching such a short completion time, with comparable results, is a relatively fast, and enjoyable, process. They don't plateau as early, and don't struggle from the beginning. > If you believe "guess I just don't have innate ability here" you'll give up and never get good. Correct, but it doesn't imply that "giving your all" does make you good (at an absolute scale). You will no doubt improve relative to your earlier self, but those advances may not qualify as "competitive", more globally speaking. Giving up (after serious work) may be objectively valid. For some people, persevering is the challenge (= lack of willpower, persistence); for others, accepting failure / mediocrity, and -- possibly -- finding something better, is the challenge.

kaycebasques 1y ago

"Sucking at something is the first step towards being kinda good at something." --- Jake the Dog

OjotCewIo 1y ago
Counterpoint: you'll stop enjoying a new hobby, like learning to play the guitar, when you decide to get serious about it.
- unclad5968 1y ago
  This hasnt my been my experience. I continue to love basketball despite being bad at it for years regardless of how much "serious" training I do.
- dceddia 1y ago
  If it turns into treating it as a “should” then my experience is yes, definitely, that’s a death knell for basically anything. Without the “should” it continues to be fun. The trick is threading that needle.
  - SlowTao 1y ago
    It is said that God wrote the entire language for to use in a book and that we shall model ourselves off of it. Once it was done, God turns his back on the book and Satan sneaked in and added two words - "Should" and "Aught".
- johnfn 1y ago
  Been writing code for 25 years, 15 professional. Still enjoy it just as much.
- esteth 1y ago
  In my experience this is more related to treating the hobby like a chore or job instead of doing it for the fun of it, even though you're bad at it. I think the relationship is kinda the other way around - you'll feel like your hobby is "serious" when you stop having fun with it.

RaftPeople 1y ago

I don't remember who said this but I really like this quote: "What would you do if you knew you would not fail?"

moomoo11 1y ago
win
SlowTao 1y ago
I would argue there is no way to make it that you do not fail in some way. ;)
- cutemonster 1y ago
  Maybe: "What would you do if reasonably soon you would get really good at it" instead?
- RaftPeople 1y ago
  > I would argue there is no way to make it that you do not fail in some way. ;) True, but I think the quote was more about not worrying about the outcome just do what you really want to do.

HellDunkel 1y ago

Chapeau- i‘ll copy what you did here.

OjotCewIo 1y ago

> you'll be bad at anything new I disagree. Innate talent / affinity and transferable experience exist. I agree with "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration"; however, given equal effort, people with innate talent are going to win over people with no or less talent by a wide margin. This applies to everything. Gym / sports performance, muscle growth, work that needs IQ, work that needs EQ, life events that need resilience, general happiness, everything. Genetics is hugely definitive. And I'm convinced some people bounce back more easily after a failure because failure is genuinely less hurtful for them. They don't need to "hold onto that mindset"; they just have it.

majormajor 1y ago
> I disagree. Innate talent / affinity and transferable experience exist. I agree with "10% inspiration and 90% perspiration"; however, given equal effort, people with innate talent are going to win over people with no or less talent by a wide margin. I think you are misreading the person you're replying to. They aren't saying "everybody can be equally good at everything with practice." They're saying "don't quit just because you aren't great on day 1." First time playing basketball even if you've played soccer a ton and have good general athletic ability? Don't expect to hold your own if joining a game being played by people who play every week. First time doing woodworking even if you have an electrical engineering background and the methodicalness is not foreign to you? Don't expect your first table to be stunning. Still gonna be bad at it compared to people with more practice! Honestly, if you think you're great at something the first time you try it, you probably just don't know what being great at it actually looks like. (It could even be "similar result, but better in some hidden ways, and done in 1/10th the time.") But if you believe that you'll get better at it with practice, you'll keep doing it. If you believe "guess I just don't have innate ability here" you'll give up and never get good.
- OjotCewIo 1y ago
  > I think you are misreading the person you're replying to. [...] They're saying "don't quit just because you aren't great on day 1." That's not what they're saying. They literally wrote, "you'll be bad at anything new". That's what I disagreed with. There are people who are great at something new (for them), and catch up with (and surpass) old-timers incredibly quickly. And their learning experience -- not that it doesn't take effort -- is generally enjoyable, exactly because they succeed from very early on. I've witnessed this with at least two colleagues. Entered completely new fields (one of them repeatedly), and in a few weeks, surpassed old-timers in those fields. These are the guys who tend to be promoted to senior principal or distinguished software engineers. > First time playing basketball even if you've played soccer a ton and have good general athletic ability? Don't expect to hold your own if joining a game being played by people who play every week. Do expect to mostly catch up with them in 1-2 months! (In my high school class, the soccer team was effectively identical to the basketball team.) > and done in 1/10th the time I agree with this; yes. But my point is that, for some people, approaching such a short completion time, with comparable results, is a relatively fast, and enjoyable, process. They don't plateau as early, and don't struggle from the beginning. > If you believe "guess I just don't have innate ability here" you'll give up and never get good. Correct, but it doesn't imply that "giving your all" does make you good (at an absolute scale). You will no doubt improve relative to your earlier self, but those advances may not qualify as "competitive", more globally speaking. Giving up (after serious work) may be objectively valid. For some people, persevering is the challenge (= lack of willpower, persistence); for others, accepting failure / mediocrity, and -- possibly -- finding something better, is the challenge.