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What is this article talking about? Basically every app I have on my phone that takes payments from me accepts ApplePay and also credit cards.

by akerl_ 1y ago

lxgr 1y ago
I believe they mean iOS in-app purchases when they say "ApplePay". Swap the two out mentally while reading, and it makes a bit more sense. To be honest, I'm very surprised by that mistake, given where it's published – I'd hope that people working on GNU Taler understand the basics of their competitive environment.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- akerl_ 1y ago
  Yea, that makes more sense, but still seems incorrect? Just on my phone, several apps let me subscribe via the Apple AppStore but also by subscribing on their website with a credit card (like Discord, NYT, AllTrails, HBO, etc) And that’s not even considering that when I pay for an in-app purchase… I’m paying with my credit card. Apple takes their cut, but it’s still my Amex or visa or whatever that I’m using via my Apple account. It feels like the only viable part of this beef is that apps can’t accept both in-app purchases and alternate payments directly on their iOS app for functionality within the app?
  - lxgr 1y ago
    > Just on my phone, several apps let me subscribe via the Apple AppStore but also by subscribing on their website with a credit card (like Discord, NYT, AllTrails, HBO, etc) This is one of the few historical exemptions from Apple's otherwise ironclad IAP rules for so-called "reader apps". Still, until very recently, these apps could not even mention that you can buy content/subscriptions on their website for cheaper (or, in some cases like the Kindle app, exclusively buy it there), let alone link to said website. Now, the landscape is somewhat fragmented: In the EU, thanks to the DMA, external linking to external payment methods is allowed, but comes with a "scare sheet" and still grants Apple a cut of 20%(!). (This is about to change, I believe, but I'm not super up to date on it.) In the US, developers can now apparently link to external payment sites (in SAfari) without Apple being allowed to charge a commission at all. This is a very recent development, and I haven't seen it in action myself.
twoodfin 1y ago
Also the core analogy is wrong: If I own the concession rights for an airport, I am absolutely taking a non-trivial commission on every Chipotle burrito and Starbucks latte sold there.
n3t 1y ago
Can you provide an example? I've just checked 3 different apps which offer premium features. All of them go straight to Apple Pay, without showing any other options. EDIT: okay, I think get it now. In-app purchases != taking payments in general. E.g. I have different options for payments when using the Amazon app but only Apple Pay when buying a pro version of a metronome app. It's in-app purchases that force Apple Pay.
- lxgr 1y ago
  That's not Apple Pay, these are iOS in-app purchases. If you or the author call it that, nobody here will understand you.
  - n3t 1y ago
    Makes sense now, thanks. To be fair, as a user, I don't see the expression "in-app purchases" while I _do_ see the Apple Pay logo. It's easy to get them confused.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      What's probably happening here is that you are paying Apple using Apple Pay. Apple is the merchant of record for in-app-purchases. So it's not entirely incorrect (but definitely confusing) to say that the end user is "paying using Apple Pay", but they're paying Apple, not the app vendor.
- mholm 1y ago
  In-app purchases (ie upgrading an App subscription) are different from purchases in an app (ie buying things on Amazon). Entirely different platforms and structures that have been separate forever.
hk1337 1y ago
I believe they may be confusing the requirements. If I understand the App Store rules, you can accept payments from other places but you have included ApplePay as an option too. So, Apple doesn’t restrict you to ApplePay only but that you have to include ApplePay.
- lxgr 1y ago
  I don’t believe there is any “must support Apple Pay if accepting card payments” rule. If there is, it’d be honored in the breach; uncountable apps take card payments but not Apple Pay.
  - hk1337 1y ago
    I could be mistaken, yes but that was what I remember being clarified with the Epic Games debacle. Epic _only_ wanted to give user only one available option but Apple said they had to give them an Apple IAP option too.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      IAP and Apple Pay are completely different.

What is this article talking about? Basically every app I have on my phone that takes payments from me accepts ApplePay and also credit cards.

by akerl_ 1y ago

What is this article talking about? Basically every app I have on my phone that takes payments from me accepts ApplePay and also credit cards.

lxgr 1y ago

I believe they mean iOS in-app purchases when they say "ApplePay". Swap the two out mentally while reading, and it makes a bit more sense. To be honest, I'm very surprised by that mistake, given where it's published – I'd hope that people working on GNU Taler understand the basics of their competitive environment.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
akerl_ 1y ago
Yea, that makes more sense, but still seems incorrect? Just on my phone, several apps let me subscribe via the Apple AppStore but also by subscribing on their website with a credit card (like Discord, NYT, AllTrails, HBO, etc) And that’s not even considering that when I pay for an in-app purchase… I’m paying with my credit card. Apple takes their cut, but it’s still my Amex or visa or whatever that I’m using via my Apple account. It feels like the only viable part of this beef is that apps can’t accept both in-app purchases and alternate payments directly on their iOS app for functionality within the app?
- lxgr 1y ago
  > Just on my phone, several apps let me subscribe via the Apple AppStore but also by subscribing on their website with a credit card (like Discord, NYT, AllTrails, HBO, etc) This is one of the few historical exemptions from Apple's otherwise ironclad IAP rules for so-called "reader apps". Still, until very recently, these apps could not even mention that you can buy content/subscriptions on their website for cheaper (or, in some cases like the Kindle app, exclusively buy it there), let alone link to said website. Now, the landscape is somewhat fragmented: In the EU, thanks to the DMA, external linking to external payment methods is allowed, but comes with a "scare sheet" and still grants Apple a cut of 20%(!). (This is about to change, I believe, but I'm not super up to date on it.) In the US, developers can now apparently link to external payment sites (in SAfari) without Apple being allowed to charge a commission at all. This is a very recent development, and I haven't seen it in action myself.

twoodfin 1y ago

Also the core analogy is wrong: If I own the concession rights for an airport, I am absolutely taking a non-trivial commission on every Chipotle burrito and Starbucks latte sold there.

n3t 1y ago

Can you provide an example? I've just checked 3 different apps which offer premium features. All of them go straight to Apple Pay, without showing any other options. EDIT: okay, I think get it now. In-app purchases != taking payments in general. E.g. I have different options for payments when using the Amazon app but only Apple Pay when buying a pro version of a metronome app. It's in-app purchases that force Apple Pay.

lxgr 1y ago
That's not Apple Pay, these are iOS in-app purchases. If you or the author call it that, nobody here will understand you.
- n3t 1y ago
  Makes sense now, thanks. To be fair, as a user, I don't see the expression "in-app purchases" while I _do_ see the Apple Pay logo. It's easy to get them confused.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    What's probably happening here is that you are paying Apple using Apple Pay. Apple is the merchant of record for in-app-purchases. So it's not entirely incorrect (but definitely confusing) to say that the end user is "paying using Apple Pay", but they're paying Apple, not the app vendor.
mholm 1y ago
In-app purchases (ie upgrading an App subscription) are different from purchases in an app (ie buying things on Amazon). Entirely different platforms and structures that have been separate forever.

hk1337 1y ago

I believe they may be confusing the requirements. If I understand the App Store rules, you can accept payments from other places but you have included ApplePay as an option too. So, Apple doesn’t restrict you to ApplePay only but that you have to include ApplePay.

lxgr 1y ago
I don’t believe there is any “must support Apple Pay if accepting card payments” rule. If there is, it’d be honored in the breach; uncountable apps take card payments but not Apple Pay.
- hk1337 1y ago
  I could be mistaken, yes but that was what I remember being clarified with the Epic Games debacle. Epic _only_ wanted to give user only one available option but Apple said they had to give them an Apple IAP option too.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    IAP and Apple Pay are completely different.