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Oh, goody! Also, ICE has a bigger budget now than most of the world's militaries[1]. But let's not talk about that. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-

Oh, goody! Also, ICE has a bigger budget now than most of the world's militaries[1]. But let's not talk about that. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-ice-bill-trump-2093456 https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-ice-bill-trump-2093456

saubeidl 1y ago
An organization of goons who grab people off the street and disappear them to concentration camps? Why does that sound so familiar? Capitalists have always been involved in the rise of fascist movements.
- drstewart 1y ago
  >Why does that sound so familiar? Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    I am Austrian. My entire education was dedicated to the rise of fascism and how it could happen and how to make sure it never happens again. I know what I'm seeing. Don't believe me? What about subject matter experts that decided to flee the country? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/opinion/yale-canada-fascism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/opinion/yale-canada-fasci... Or how about an excerpt from a book written based on post-WW2 interviews of Germans? Does any of that sound familiar at all? https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm > They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ [...] > "But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
    - drstewart 1y ago
      > They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ Ah, well in that case, it's clear to me Austria is actually the one on the brink of fascism. It's clear to me, having extensively eaten a lot of strudel (makes me an expert in Austria), that it's now a fascist country. And if you say: ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ then clearly you're just in denial.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        You've lost me. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, could you rephrase your point in a more coherent way please? But also, yes, Austria was on the brink of fascism not too long ago. Our far-right party almost got to form a government and their plans were quite sinister. Thankfully, disaster was averted due to egos and greed - the far-right and center-right couldn't agree on who gets to pilfer to country more, so they didn't end up forming a coalition.
        drstewart 1y ago
        Your entire argument boils to the fact that you live in Austria and that makes you an expert on fascism and if anyone tries to refute you then it immediately means they're in denial. Which is, of course, non-sensical.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        I never said I live in Austria. I don't. But having grown up in Austria, the rise of fascism was the major theme of my entire education.
        squarefoot 1y ago
        Italian here, and I know a few things about fascism not just because of that. Yes, what is happening in the US is the rise of a fascist state controlled by a small minority of very wealthy and powerful people purely for economical reasons with Trump being just a tool in their hands. As with happened in my country back then, there are only two possible reasons for endorsing it: being part of the cult, or being part of the club. That's why I stopped long ago any attempt at reasoning with apologists.
  - computerthings 1y ago
    [dead]
  - myvoiceismypass 1y ago
    > Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it I've seen it with my own eyes, no fucking thanks.
perihelions 1y ago
That (initially) $175 billion/year will pay for itself in forced labor. I think most countries with large-scale systems of concentration camps converged on that solution, when the costs of those systems ballooned into something unsustainable. Modern China has that. Their system makes use of their (reportedly millions) of incarcerated Uyghurs as low-skill forced labor, mainly in textiles/clothes. Few talk about it, but a significant fraction of Western clothing comes out of these camps. The 1940's Germans were efficient: in extremis, they realized you could optimize value from concentration camps by starving the workers to death, extracting value from the final months of their lives with minimal operating costs. That was "extermination through labor". Hacker News, being what it is, will be most focused on the impact on their 401k's. Their grandchildren will read these comments.
- archagon 1y ago
  The fact that this is downvoted is deeply disturbing. Timothy Snyder has similar thoughts on concentration camp labor: https://snyder.substack.com/p/concentration-camp-labor https://snyder.substack.com/p/concentration-camp-labor Meanwhile, SV darling Curtis Yarvin is plainly insinuating that we should bring slavery back: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gqqqg5xi4p2x4bfgphr7akip/post/3lt7x6kyjrk22 https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gqqqg5xi4p2x4bfgphr7akip/po... What in the fuck is wrong with people?
  - lunar-whitey 1y ago
    It is important to understand that the methods selected for the “Final Solution” were intended to minimize costs. It is dangerous for crime at this scale to become cheap. The experience of the Einsatzgruppen in Poland showed that mass execution with guns used too much material and was too stressful for the perpetrators. Camps allowed operational costs to be amortized while individual responsibility was diffused.
    - computerthings 1y ago
      [dead]
    - 1y ago

saubeidl 1y ago

An organization of goons who grab people off the street and disappear them to concentration camps? Why does that sound so familiar? Capitalists have always been involved in the rise of fascist movements.

drstewart 1y ago
>Why does that sound so familiar? Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it
- saubeidl 1y ago
  I am Austrian. My entire education was dedicated to the rise of fascism and how it could happen and how to make sure it never happens again. I know what I'm seeing. Don't believe me? What about subject matter experts that decided to flee the country? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/opinion/yale-canada-fascism.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/opinion/yale-canada-fasci... Or how about an excerpt from a book written based on post-WW2 interviews of Germans? Does any of that sound familiar at all? https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm > They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ [...] > "But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
  - drstewart 1y ago
    > They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ Ah, well in that case, it's clear to me Austria is actually the one on the brink of fascism. It's clear to me, having extensively eaten a lot of strudel (makes me an expert in Austria), that it's now a fascist country. And if you say: ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ then clearly you're just in denial.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      You've lost me. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, could you rephrase your point in a more coherent way please? But also, yes, Austria was on the brink of fascism not too long ago. Our far-right party almost got to form a government and their plans were quite sinister. Thankfully, disaster was averted due to egos and greed - the far-right and center-right couldn't agree on who gets to pilfer to country more, so they didn't end up forming a coalition.
      - drstewart 1y ago
        Your entire argument boils to the fact that you live in Austria and that makes you an expert on fascism and if anyone tries to refute you then it immediately means they're in denial. Which is, of course, non-sensical.
        saubeidl 1y ago
        I never said I live in Austria. I don't. But having grown up in Austria, the rise of fascism was the major theme of my entire education.
        squarefoot 1y ago
        Italian here, and I know a few things about fascism not just because of that. Yes, what is happening in the US is the rise of a fascist state controlled by a small minority of very wealthy and powerful people purely for economical reasons with Trump being just a tool in their hands. As with happened in my country back then, there are only two possible reasons for endorsing it: being part of the cult, or being part of the club. That's why I stopped long ago any attempt at reasoning with apologists.
- computerthings 1y ago
  [dead]
- myvoiceismypass 1y ago
  > Probably because you've seen it repeated so much in your hyper-propaganda bubble of reddit that you've started to believe it I've seen it with my own eyes, no fucking thanks.

perihelions 1y ago

That (initially) $175 billion/year will pay for itself in forced labor. I think most countries with large-scale systems of concentration camps converged on that solution, when the costs of those systems ballooned into something unsustainable. Modern China has that. Their system makes use of their (reportedly millions) of incarcerated Uyghurs as low-skill forced labor, mainly in textiles/clothes. Few talk about it, but a significant fraction of Western clothing comes out of these camps. The 1940's Germans were efficient: in extremis, they realized you could optimize value from concentration camps by starving the workers to death, extracting value from the final months of their lives with minimal operating costs. That was "extermination through labor". Hacker News, being what it is, will be most focused on the impact on their 401k's. Their grandchildren will read these comments.

archagon 1y ago
The fact that this is downvoted is deeply disturbing. Timothy Snyder has similar thoughts on concentration camp labor: https://snyder.substack.com/p/concentration-camp-labor https://snyder.substack.com/p/concentration-camp-labor Meanwhile, SV darling Curtis Yarvin is plainly insinuating that we should bring slavery back: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gqqqg5xi4p2x4bfgphr7akip/post/3lt7x6kyjrk22 https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:gqqqg5xi4p2x4bfgphr7akip/po... What in the fuck is wrong with people?
- lunar-whitey 1y ago
  It is important to understand that the methods selected for the “Final Solution” were intended to minimize costs. It is dangerous for crime at this scale to become cheap. The experience of the Einsatzgruppen in Poland showed that mass execution with guns used too much material and was too stressful for the perpetrators. Camps allowed operational costs to be amortized while individual responsibility was diffused.
  - computerthings 1y ago
    [dead]
  - 1y ago