3 ms·

I don't really get these; there's not a ton of difference between using a wrench to threaten someone with a bunch of Bitcoin vs using a wrench to threaten someo

I don't really get these; there's not a ton of difference between using a wrench to threaten someone with a bunch of Bitcoin vs using a wrench to threaten someone with a bunch of any other liquid asset that could be used to buy bitcoins.

andylynch 1y ago
Bitcoin doesn’t ask questions when you unexpectedly want to make a very large transfer to a new payee. Your banker will.
- paulpauper 1y ago
  But exchanges will if you deposit that much, and will freeze your $ if they don't like your response.
  - udev4096 1y ago
    Why would you even use a central exchange? It makes no sense. The person holding an absurd amount of coins would not be stupid to throw it all away like that
    - paulpauper 1y ago
      then there is no way to liquate anything close to that much without a centralized exchange
BJones12 1y ago
If I had 8 billion in cash in my bank account and put in a transfer order, they'd block it, call me, make me come into a branch, make sure there weren't any burly guys with wrenches escorting me in, and maybe call the FBI if anything seemed off. And if it was still legit after that, there would be days or weeks of waiting for the transfer to actually happen, during which time I could call and cancel.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
  Also, for the rest of your life, you'd be able to get the people arrested who stole the money. So they'd either to kill you after, and it would be obvious why, and there'd be an easy lead on who. Your odds of getting away with stealing that kind of money conventionally are essentially zero.
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  > And if it was still legit after that, there would be days or weeks of waiting for the transfer to actually happen or you get a better bank to begin with most banks that call their slow processes "security purposes" are actually just putting up barriers to maintain liquidity. the banks that go bust are the ones that got clientele based on making it convenient to transfer
- paulpauper 1y ago
  But the criminal's stolen BTC are tainted. Exchanges will not accept them. procession of them is a crime
  - jhasse 1y ago
    Mixers will though.
    - paulpauper 1y ago
      and then those bitcoin are tainted too due to association with the mixer
  - FabHK 1y ago
    How fortunate that exchanges are centralized institutions that can be held accountable by law.
- Marsymars 1y ago
  Alright, so I can see it as a matter of scale. Recently there was a local case of someone extorting people by leaving threats in the mailboxes to not burn people’s houses down in exchange for $1k in bitcoin. But who would keep $8B in bitcoin without some protections in place to ensure that it can’t be easily transferred away, given the associated upside/downside? That’s... roughly as foolish as keeping $8B in actual cash/gold/gems (notwithstanding the logistical problems with the size/weight) under your mattress.
jedberg 1y ago
This is the other edge of that double edged sword of "no regulations". It's a lot easier to steal bitcoin with no consequence because there isn't an entire financial system backed by people with guns to help you if you are wronged.
- dist-epoch 1y ago
  You are confused. The people with guns will come for you if you steal bitcoin and they know who you are. > Bitcoin thief sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing $1 billion in crypto and laundering it with his social-media rapper wife ‘Razzlekhan’ https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/11/15/bitcoin-thief-sentenced-5-years-1-billion-crypto-laundering-razzlekhan/ https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/11/15/bitcoin-thief-sentence...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - paulpauper 1y ago
    No, he was changed with laundering.
- diggan 1y ago
  > there isn't an entire financial system backed by people with guns to help you if you are wronged It's not the "financial system" that comes and hunts criminals with guns, but police, acting based on what laws they seen has been broken. And stealing $3 billion is as illegal if it was Bitcoins, as if it was Euro or USD.
  - Larrikin 1y ago
    There are essentially no criminals that are stealing crypto where the police will have jurisdiction. It's main use case outside of speculation is committing international fraud and theft with no consequences.
  - hnaccount_rng 1y ago
    The point isn't about a change of legality. It's about a change of enforceability! In the normal regulated financial system _every_ entity you can interact with is known to someone who is a) good at keeping paper traces and b) extremely motivated to provide them, given appropriate motivation, i.e. a properly formed request by authorised parties. And that limits the number of times you can do anything scammy to "few" before you need to switch identities So in your scenario: The 3 billion will reappear at some point and they will raise flags. And at that point there is a convenient rendezvous point between law enforcement and the perpetrators. And we can all quibble about whether the authorisation is appropriate or not (not all "requests" are requests and most won't even need anything close to a court order). But it's damn convenient to follow the money
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bravesoul2 1y ago
What does Micheal Saylor do?

andylynch 1y ago

Bitcoin doesn’t ask questions when you unexpectedly want to make a very large transfer to a new payee. Your banker will.

paulpauper 1y ago
But exchanges will if you deposit that much, and will freeze your $ if they don't like your response.
- udev4096 1y ago
  Why would you even use a central exchange? It makes no sense. The person holding an absurd amount of coins would not be stupid to throw it all away like that
  - paulpauper 1y ago
    then there is no way to liquate anything close to that much without a centralized exchange

BJones12 1y ago

If I had 8 billion in cash in my bank account and put in a transfer order, they'd block it, call me, make me come into a branch, make sure there weren't any burly guys with wrenches escorting me in, and maybe call the FBI if anything seemed off. And if it was still legit after that, there would be days or weeks of waiting for the transfer to actually happen, during which time I could call and cancel.

onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
Also, for the rest of your life, you'd be able to get the people arrested who stole the money. So they'd either to kill you after, and it would be obvious why, and there'd be an easy lead on who. Your odds of getting away with stealing that kind of money conventionally are essentially zero.
yieldcrv 1y ago
> And if it was still legit after that, there would be days or weeks of waiting for the transfer to actually happen or you get a better bank to begin with most banks that call their slow processes "security purposes" are actually just putting up barriers to maintain liquidity. the banks that go bust are the ones that got clientele based on making it convenient to transfer
paulpauper 1y ago
But the criminal's stolen BTC are tainted. Exchanges will not accept them. procession of them is a crime
- jhasse 1y ago
  Mixers will though.
  - paulpauper 1y ago
    and then those bitcoin are tainted too due to association with the mixer
- FabHK 1y ago
  How fortunate that exchanges are centralized institutions that can be held accountable by law.
Marsymars 1y ago
Alright, so I can see it as a matter of scale. Recently there was a local case of someone extorting people by leaving threats in the mailboxes to not burn people’s houses down in exchange for $1k in bitcoin. But who would keep $8B in bitcoin without some protections in place to ensure that it can’t be easily transferred away, given the associated upside/downside? That’s... roughly as foolish as keeping $8B in actual cash/gold/gems (notwithstanding the logistical problems with the size/weight) under your mattress.

jedberg 1y ago

This is the other edge of that double edged sword of "no regulations". It's a lot easier to steal bitcoin with no consequence because there isn't an entire financial system backed by people with guns to help you if you are wronged.

dist-epoch 1y ago
You are confused. The people with guns will come for you if you steal bitcoin and they know who you are. > Bitcoin thief sentenced to 5 years in prison for stealing $1 billion in crypto and laundering it with his social-media rapper wife ‘Razzlekhan’ https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/11/15/bitcoin-thief-sentenced-5-years-1-billion-crypto-laundering-razzlekhan/ https://fortune.com/crypto/2024/11/15/bitcoin-thief-sentence...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- paulpauper 1y ago
  No, he was changed with laundering.
diggan 1y ago
> there isn't an entire financial system backed by people with guns to help you if you are wronged It's not the "financial system" that comes and hunts criminals with guns, but police, acting based on what laws they seen has been broken. And stealing $3 billion is as illegal if it was Bitcoins, as if it was Euro or USD.
- Larrikin 1y ago
  There are essentially no criminals that are stealing crypto where the police will have jurisdiction. It's main use case outside of speculation is committing international fraud and theft with no consequences.
- hnaccount_rng 1y ago
  The point isn't about a change of legality. It's about a change of enforceability! In the normal regulated financial system _every_ entity you can interact with is known to someone who is a) good at keeping paper traces and b) extremely motivated to provide them, given appropriate motivation, i.e. a properly formed request by authorised parties. And that limits the number of times you can do anything scammy to "few" before you need to switch identities So in your scenario: The 3 billion will reappear at some point and they will raise flags. And at that point there is a convenient rendezvous point between law enforcement and the perpetrators. And we can all quibble about whether the authorisation is appropriate or not (not all "requests" are requests and most won't even need anything close to a court order). But it's damn convenient to follow the money

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

bravesoul2 1y ago

What does Micheal Saylor do?