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I sometimes wonder if the best way to dominate a market would be to grow sustainable and wait out the competition until they crash themself with their self sabo

by pjio 1y ago

I sometimes wonder if the best way to dominate a market would be to grow sustainable and wait out the competition until they crash themself with their self sabotaging strategy of unhealthy, exploitive behavior. This article was just, what I needed to read today.

n4r9 1y ago
That would be sweet. The sad truth is that a big company can coast on unhealthy exploitative behaviours for many years; perhaps decades.
- ozgrakkurt 1y ago
  This doesn’t apply to vc funded startups
  - n4r9 1y ago
    Not sure what you mean. Uber scaled from VC funded startup to megacorp despite a raft of exploitative practices.
    - ozgrakkurt 1y ago
      Longevity can be achieved for a company with two devs and no outside investment with 15k/month income so they can live ok. But for a vc funded startup you need way more revenue to keep raising money. This is from what I learned in the startups I worked at. I guess uber is a huge success compared to your median startup right?
adastra22 1y ago
Unfortunately the wait-it-out strategy typically works the other direction.
- mananaysiempre 1y ago
  Feels like this is a finance-fueled version of the age-old stratagem of dumping, but existing laws against that were not written with it in mind, and in any case would not work fast enough for the good-faith competitors to remain afloat.
GoatOfAplomb 1y ago
I think Fogbugz sort of tried this? I guess it still exists. But it certainly hasn't "won".
- lmm 1y ago
  Yep. If anything VC-funded sales-heavy Atlassian ate their lunch.
  - FreakLegion 1y ago
    Atlassian was bootstrapped to high eight-figure revenue and profitability before they took investor money, much like GitHub. They very much won on their own.
klabb3 1y ago
This is pretty much Valve, no?
- Yizahi 1y ago
  More like GOG. Valve was an outlier due to first mover advantage. GOG is what people are describing here - company tries to compete in the already established market by providing a "fair" service. If I remember correctly GOG is struggling to survive at all.
  - klabb3 1y ago
    TIL. But what’s unfair with Valve or Steam?
    - Yizahi 1y ago
      I didn't mean it like that, certainly nothing unfair about Valve. It's just that GOG tries to differentiate by being slightly more consumer oriented than all other competitors - no DRM as a principle, much longer refund window, ability to legally download a complete installers for games, interop (basic) with competitors, programs to update abandonware for modern systems etc. But it seems that it's not enough to become successful even after years of hard work and becoming a stable recognized brand.
      - klabb3 1y ago
        Ah yeah, that makes sense. If Valve didn’t exist I imagine that they would have been more successful. Because the same is true in the other direction - enshittified launchers from EA, Ubisoft etc are avoided by a lot of gamers and are not successful on their own merits. What makes it challenging is that there is no standard format for game libraries. If instead you had a game library software that was interoperable with different vendors (like an email client or web browser) it would have been possible to buy and collect games from different vendors or publishers without having to manage multiple accounts and libraries. I guess the lesson is that systems of middlemen are fragile and problematic even when the middleman are acting in good faith. Getting rid of middlemen gate keepers is both a technical and social challenge, and not easy.
mamcx 1y ago
Others said don't work, but mainly if you aim too high. THIS is exactly how you survive as small/solo company/consultant. In fact, all my customers wish I have more time to redo most of the tools that they use. (Tipical scenario: "Hey your app that make invoices is neat, why you don't just add a module for our industrial process and because we want to integrate all and you need to add email capabilities then just add a word processor that is like excel, but good") The "just add" is not only being naive or greedy, sometimes people dream that the few ones they can actually rely could do all already...

by pjio 1y ago

n4r9 1y ago

That would be sweet. The sad truth is that a big company can coast on unhealthy exploitative behaviours for many years; perhaps decades.

ozgrakkurt 1y ago
This doesn’t apply to vc funded startups
- n4r9 1y ago
  Not sure what you mean. Uber scaled from VC funded startup to megacorp despite a raft of exploitative practices.
  - ozgrakkurt 1y ago
    Longevity can be achieved for a company with two devs and no outside investment with 15k/month income so they can live ok. But for a vc funded startup you need way more revenue to keep raising money. This is from what I learned in the startups I worked at. I guess uber is a huge success compared to your median startup right?

adastra22 1y ago

Unfortunately the wait-it-out strategy typically works the other direction.

mananaysiempre 1y ago
Feels like this is a finance-fueled version of the age-old stratagem of dumping, but existing laws against that were not written with it in mind, and in any case would not work fast enough for the good-faith competitors to remain afloat.

GoatOfAplomb 1y ago

I think Fogbugz sort of tried this? I guess it still exists. But it certainly hasn't "won".

lmm 1y ago
Yep. If anything VC-funded sales-heavy Atlassian ate their lunch.
- FreakLegion 1y ago
  Atlassian was bootstrapped to high eight-figure revenue and profitability before they took investor money, much like GitHub. They very much won on their own.

klabb3 1y ago

This is pretty much Valve, no?

Yizahi 1y ago
More like GOG. Valve was an outlier due to first mover advantage. GOG is what people are describing here - company tries to compete in the already established market by providing a "fair" service. If I remember correctly GOG is struggling to survive at all.
- klabb3 1y ago
  TIL. But what’s unfair with Valve or Steam?
  - Yizahi 1y ago
    I didn't mean it like that, certainly nothing unfair about Valve. It's just that GOG tries to differentiate by being slightly more consumer oriented than all other competitors - no DRM as a principle, much longer refund window, ability to legally download a complete installers for games, interop (basic) with competitors, programs to update abandonware for modern systems etc. But it seems that it's not enough to become successful even after years of hard work and becoming a stable recognized brand.
    - klabb3 1y ago
      Ah yeah, that makes sense. If Valve didn’t exist I imagine that they would have been more successful. Because the same is true in the other direction - enshittified launchers from EA, Ubisoft etc are avoided by a lot of gamers and are not successful on their own merits. What makes it challenging is that there is no standard format for game libraries. If instead you had a game library software that was interoperable with different vendors (like an email client or web browser) it would have been possible to buy and collect games from different vendors or publishers without having to manage multiple accounts and libraries. I guess the lesson is that systems of middlemen are fragile and problematic even when the middleman are acting in good faith. Getting rid of middlemen gate keepers is both a technical and social challenge, and not easy.

mamcx 1y ago

Others said don't work, but mainly if you aim too high. THIS is exactly how you survive as small/solo company/consultant. In fact, all my customers wish I have more time to redo most of the tools that they use. (Tipical scenario: "Hey your app that make invoices is neat, why you don't just add a module for our industrial process and because we want to integrate all and you need to add email capabilities then just add a word processor that is like excel, but good") The "just add" is not only being naive or greedy, sometimes people dream that the few ones they can actually rely could do all already...