5 ms·

Better public services, free college, free healthcare, better urban planning, more robust protections for privacy, civil liberties, cleaner air and water, less

Better public services, free college, free healthcare, better urban planning, more robust protections for privacy, civil liberties, cleaner air and water, less caustic sociopolitical atmosphere, better quality-of-life metrics, better economic mobility, longer life expectancy, more cohesive communities, greater representation in the democratic process, more equitable pay standards, increased paid time off, literally any kind of standard maternal/paternal leave, better medical services, greater scores of general happiness and fulfillment, more stable economic policies, more stable legal frameworks, more like-minded cultural communities, increased freedom to travel to more diverse places with less costs and administrative burdens, stronger social safety nets, better retirement plans, nicer weather with fewer natural disasters, greater diversity in populations, expanded access to rich cultural experiences, more aesthetically pleasing architecture, greater access to "third places", more educated populations, less religious populations, less political polarization, and that's just the off-the-cuff obvious items. Some more subjective than others.

nativeit 1y ago
Lower violent crime rates, lower property crime rates, lower drug addiction rates, lower homeless rates, literally any kind of standard mental healthcare, better retirement facilities, subsidized childcare, subsidized geriatric care, less expensive medication, fewer guns, more EV infrastructure, literally any kind of broadly complete passenger rail network, even partially functional immigration systems, better K-12 education outcomes, lower housing costs, more progressive tax systems, and last (for this list) but absolutely not the least for this context: even a vague whiff of the sort of dynamism that made the Bay Area such an exciting place to live in the 1970s-90s, that has since been eroded into a self-satirizing caricature of itself, currently grappling with the loss of 0% interest rates by reverting to creative accounting, layoffs, rent-seeking from users and customers, shameless AI feature-bloat, and increasingly astounding levels of brazen monopolizing, corruption, and fraud. Why, indeed?
- mc3301 1y ago
  Shhh... don't tell them about Japan. We have most of the above! In all seriousness, the language barrier among other things makes it a pretty big challenge to permanently move here.
- scrubs 1y ago
  Well duh! You coulda just said Europe is about equality of outcomes through high taxes (nothing is "free"). That's not a passive-agressive insult. To the contrary Europe made its mind up and does it.
scarface_74 1y ago
And it’s “free” only because I would pay more in taxes and probably would take home a third of what I make now and I’m not even at FAANG (been there done that)… And by stable economic policies do you mean “stagnant”? The EU couldn’t innovate its way out of wet paper bag. We are talking about software developers. If you make and save enough money - you can create your own safety net. And many countries in Europe are very much polarized if you are a Black person (https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2023/black-people-eu-face-ever-more-racism https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2023/black-people-eu-face-ever...) And you 2/3rds consider themselves Christian - about the same as the US. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels and much of the population is overly religious, bigoted, and naive and cheering as their Dear Leader is taking away services they need just because he “owns the libs”. My still living parents grew up in the segregated South and my 6 foot 3 225 pound step son got crazy looks every time he stepped out of the house in our former home when we lived in what was a “sun down town” as recently as the mid 80s (yes this one https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=NN797D4aDsCGaItb https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=NN797D4aDsCGaItb). But me personally and many of the people who post on HN and are in tech would be far worse off in any other country than here.
- scrubs 1y ago
  "Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels" The most direct, biting, focused, insightful criticism on America? Americans via familiarity breeds contempt. Europe has a fundamentally different approach than does America. Let me work this the other way as a half serious half not serious question to show the possible impasse to making the jump into the other's perspective: how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out?
  - palata 1y ago
    > how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out? I don't understand what point you are trying to make, but Brexit was accepted thanks to a lot of misconceptions and downright lies from pro-Brexit politicians. Pretty sure it wouldn't be accepted today, and pretty sure that many voters have come to regret voting for it.

nativeit 1y ago

Lower violent crime rates, lower property crime rates, lower drug addiction rates, lower homeless rates, literally any kind of standard mental healthcare, better retirement facilities, subsidized childcare, subsidized geriatric care, less expensive medication, fewer guns, more EV infrastructure, literally any kind of broadly complete passenger rail network, even partially functional immigration systems, better K-12 education outcomes, lower housing costs, more progressive tax systems, and last (for this list) but absolutely not the least for this context: even a vague whiff of the sort of dynamism that made the Bay Area such an exciting place to live in the 1970s-90s, that has since been eroded into a self-satirizing caricature of itself, currently grappling with the loss of 0% interest rates by reverting to creative accounting, layoffs, rent-seeking from users and customers, shameless AI feature-bloat, and increasingly astounding levels of brazen monopolizing, corruption, and fraud. Why, indeed?

mc3301 1y ago
Shhh... don't tell them about Japan. We have most of the above! In all seriousness, the language barrier among other things makes it a pretty big challenge to permanently move here.
scrubs 1y ago
Well duh! You coulda just said Europe is about equality of outcomes through high taxes (nothing is "free"). That's not a passive-agressive insult. To the contrary Europe made its mind up and does it.

scarface_74 1y ago

And it’s “free” only because I would pay more in taxes and probably would take home a third of what I make now and I’m not even at FAANG (been there done that)… And by stable economic policies do you mean “stagnant”? The EU couldn’t innovate its way out of wet paper bag. We are talking about software developers. If you make and save enough money - you can create your own safety net. And many countries in Europe are very much polarized if you are a Black person (https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2023/black-people-eu-face-ever-more-racism https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2023/black-people-eu-face-ever...) And you 2/3rds consider themselves Christian - about the same as the US. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels and much of the population is overly religious, bigoted, and naive and cheering as their Dear Leader is taking away services they need just because he “owns the libs”. My still living parents grew up in the segregated South and my 6 foot 3 225 pound step son got crazy looks every time he stepped out of the house in our former home when we lived in what was a “sun down town” as recently as the mid 80s (yes this one https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=NN797D4aDsCGaItb https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=NN797D4aDsCGaItb). But me personally and many of the people who post on HN and are in tech would be far worse off in any other country than here.

scrubs 1y ago
"Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels" The most direct, biting, focused, insightful criticism on America? Americans via familiarity breeds contempt. Europe has a fundamentally different approach than does America. Let me work this the other way as a half serious half not serious question to show the possible impasse to making the jump into the other's perspective: how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out?
- palata 1y ago
  > how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out? I don't understand what point you are trying to make, but Brexit was accepted thanks to a lot of misconceptions and downright lies from pro-Brexit politicians. Pretty sure it wouldn't be accepted today, and pretty sure that many voters have come to regret voting for it.