6 ms·

And it has the same fake excuse as usual "Since this was our first OSS project, we didn’t realize at first." He sure discovered this new open source thing and

And it has the same fake excuse as usual "Since this was our first OSS project, we didn’t realize at first." He sure discovered this new open source thing and it's very confusing. It's not like it's almost 40 years old at that point. I'll never understand people who lie like toddlers.

h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
This incompetence excuse puts YC in a bad spotlight too, because it makes them look like they are funding people with exact zero software development experience.
- pghatedphones 1y ago
  Isn't YC supposed to offer guidance and sage advice, not just be a cash machine for naive young developers?
  - thiht 1y ago
    They're also supposed to do their due diligence before investing.
    - ignoramous 1y ago
      Paul Graham once wrote that startups are pretty hard to game unlike academia for top grades or a big company for promotions. In a twist of fate, YC itself seems to be gamed like those broken companies. So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. https://www.paulgraham.com/before.html https://www.paulgraham.com/before.html / https://archive.vn/UKky8 https://archive.vn/UKky8
      - jltsiren 1y ago
        When you institutionalize an ad hoc process, you turn it into a system that can be gamed. YC did that for startups, and it was already pretty obvious in 2014 when Paul Graham wrote that essay. Every other government was claiming to support startups and that their corner of the world would become the next Silicon Valley.
  - wordofx 1y ago
    No. YC just throws money at the wall and sees what sticks. They fund some trash, and trash people.
- miki123211 1y ago
  TBH, I know plenty of people with software development experience, who I think are genuinely pretty good at converting ideas to code, but who wouldn't have any idea what Apache or GPL mean.
  - whilenot-dev 1y ago
    Every init-command requires you to define or at least review a license for your project, so I would refrain from calling that one "software development experience".
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > because it makes them look like they are funding people with exact zero software development experience. Being a great software developer does not make you a lawyer (not even a bad lawyer).
  - d1sxeyes 1y ago
    Forking an open source repo and claiming you built something in 4 days does not make you a great software developer either though.
    - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
      > claiming you built something in 4 days That is why when such a marketing claim comes up, the first question to ask is from which base they built the respective product in 4 days, and which kind of additional value the respective company added during this process.
  - senko 1y ago
    You don't need to be a lawyer to understand you can't just copy others' IP without checking if you're allowed to. By your argument, I can just torrent moviez and appz because I'm not a lawyer and can't be bothered with minutae of copyright law.
    - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
      > By your argument, I can just torrent movies and appz becuase I'm not a lawyer and can't be bothered with minutae of copyright law. Indeed, there exist people who argue that in many areas law has become so complicated and unclear what is allowed or not that you cannot thus expect from ordinary citizens to obey the laws anymore - even if these citizens are willing to. Thus politicians do have an obligation to make the laws as clear, logical and comprehensible as possible, otherwise they loose their legitimization of expecting citizens to obey them.
      - senko 1y ago
- askl 1y ago
  Aren't VCs based on the principle of throwing money in as many directions as possible and hoping something turns out to be a unicorn?
  - bpt3 1y ago
    That's what they do in practice, but not what they claim to do. This is what happens when you have people without sufficient domain experience making decisions.
oaiey 1y ago
I do not know what is wrong with software engineers. This is theft (or whatever the lawyers says in the IP law) and now stating: Ooops we did not know, our bad, we keep it till we have found a replacement. Mistakes happen also in real life, but libraries is a common thing, like cars standing on a street. You do not accidently steal a car. Software Engineering is more than coding. Basic license management incl. library vetting is part of it. If you decide to ignore that, you do not run a business enterprise, you run a criminal enterprise.
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > Basic license management incl. library vetting is part of it. This depends on whether you consider Compliance to be part of software engineering or a separate discipline. At least in most companies the compliance department is different from the software development/IT department, because the necessary skills are very different and barely transfer.
  - nhinck3 1y ago
    I mean it's basic human ethics, but I guess we are in an era where taking everything is fair game.
    - anonym29 1y ago
      Welcome to human nature. We are a species that pathologically wants what we do not have, and often neglects to practice the golden rule.
      - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
        > often neglects to practice the golden rule There exist people who are anti-copyright, which has the implications that such people are (by the golden rule) also basically fine with having their works copied.
        singpolyma3 1y ago
mns 1y ago
Because this is how the current corporate world works. It's all about appearances, someone can do whatever bad thing, will go on and say "upsie, I didn't realise that X is bad, it was an honest mistake" and then all is good, the person actually reporting it or signalling it out will be the bad one, for being critical, aggressive, not constructive or open minded.
RobotToaster 1y ago
It's funny these "founders" only use this hollow excuse with open source licensing, you never see "since this was my first company, we didn't realize taxes exist"
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > you never see "since this was my first company, we didn't realize taxes exist" Taxes are a nitpicky example, but indeed in Germany where everything is full of regulations and red tape that only some bureaucrats understand, there indeed exist founders who argue this way for these convoluted laws: For example have a look at the popular videos of the following channel (in German): https://www.youtube.com/@Nordwolle/videos https://www.youtube.com/@Nordwolle/videos
  - tormeh 1y ago
    That's different. Last time I checked he's not arguing that he didn't know, but that the regulations are ridiculous and should be changed. Which I think is completely legit. The German economy and everyone who works in it would benefit from this. Moreover, I consider euclidean zoning to be a colossal mistake...
- raincole 1y ago
  I missed revenue reporting[0] for my one-man studio once. This was exactly what I told the authority. I got fined anyway. [0]: Not in the US.
- matthewmacleod 1y ago
  This happens literally all the time.
- Hamuko 1y ago
  It's usually never a blatant "I didn't realise taxes exist" but more like "I didn't know I couldn't add haircuts to my company's tax deducts".

h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago

This incompetence excuse puts YC in a bad spotlight too, because it makes them look like they are funding people with exact zero software development experience.

pghatedphones 1y ago
Isn't YC supposed to offer guidance and sage advice, not just be a cash machine for naive young developers?
- thiht 1y ago
  They're also supposed to do their due diligence before investing.
  - ignoramous 1y ago
    Paul Graham once wrote that startups are pretty hard to game unlike academia for top grades or a big company for promotions. In a twist of fate, YC itself seems to be gamed like those broken companies. So this is the third counterintuitive thing to remember about startups: starting a startup is where gaming the system stops working. Gaming the system may continue to work if you go to work for a big company. Depending on how broken the company is, you can succeed by sucking up to the right people, giving the impression of productivity, and so on. https://www.paulgraham.com/before.html https://www.paulgraham.com/before.html / https://archive.vn/UKky8 https://archive.vn/UKky8
    - jltsiren 1y ago
      When you institutionalize an ad hoc process, you turn it into a system that can be gamed. YC did that for startups, and it was already pretty obvious in 2014 when Paul Graham wrote that essay. Every other government was claiming to support startups and that their corner of the world would become the next Silicon Valley.
- wordofx 1y ago
  No. YC just throws money at the wall and sees what sticks. They fund some trash, and trash people.
miki123211 1y ago
TBH, I know plenty of people with software development experience, who I think are genuinely pretty good at converting ideas to code, but who wouldn't have any idea what Apache or GPL mean.
- whilenot-dev 1y ago
  Every init-command requires you to define or at least review a license for your project, so I would refrain from calling that one "software development experience".
aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> because it makes them look like they are funding people with exact zero software development experience. Being a great software developer does not make you a lawyer (not even a bad lawyer).
- d1sxeyes 1y ago
  Forking an open source repo and claiming you built something in 4 days does not make you a great software developer either though.
  - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    > claiming you built something in 4 days That is why when such a marketing claim comes up, the first question to ask is from which base they built the respective product in 4 days, and which kind of additional value the respective company added during this process.
- senko 1y ago
  You don't need to be a lawyer to understand you can't just copy others' IP without checking if you're allowed to. By your argument, I can just torrent moviez and appz because I'm not a lawyer and can't be bothered with minutae of copyright law.
  - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    > By your argument, I can just torrent movies and appz becuase I'm not a lawyer and can't be bothered with minutae of copyright law. Indeed, there exist people who argue that in many areas law has become so complicated and unclear what is allowed or not that you cannot thus expect from ordinary citizens to obey the laws anymore - even if these citizens are willing to. Thus politicians do have an obligation to make the laws as clear, logical and comprehensible as possible, otherwise they loose their legitimization of expecting citizens to obey them.
    - senko 1y ago
askl 1y ago
Aren't VCs based on the principle of throwing money in as many directions as possible and hoping something turns out to be a unicorn?
- bpt3 1y ago
  That's what they do in practice, but not what they claim to do. This is what happens when you have people without sufficient domain experience making decisions.

oaiey 1y ago

I do not know what is wrong with software engineers. This is theft (or whatever the lawyers says in the IP law) and now stating: Ooops we did not know, our bad, we keep it till we have found a replacement. Mistakes happen also in real life, but libraries is a common thing, like cars standing on a street. You do not accidently steal a car. Software Engineering is more than coding. Basic license management incl. library vetting is part of it. If you decide to ignore that, you do not run a business enterprise, you run a criminal enterprise.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> Basic license management incl. library vetting is part of it. This depends on whether you consider Compliance to be part of software engineering or a separate discipline. At least in most companies the compliance department is different from the software development/IT department, because the necessary skills are very different and barely transfer.
- nhinck3 1y ago
  I mean it's basic human ethics, but I guess we are in an era where taking everything is fair game.
  - anonym29 1y ago
    Welcome to human nature. We are a species that pathologically wants what we do not have, and often neglects to practice the golden rule.
    - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
      > often neglects to practice the golden rule There exist people who are anti-copyright, which has the implications that such people are (by the golden rule) also basically fine with having their works copied.
      - singpolyma3 1y ago

mns 1y ago

Because this is how the current corporate world works. It's all about appearances, someone can do whatever bad thing, will go on and say "upsie, I didn't realise that X is bad, it was an honest mistake" and then all is good, the person actually reporting it or signalling it out will be the bad one, for being critical, aggressive, not constructive or open minded.

RobotToaster 1y ago

It's funny these "founders" only use this hollow excuse with open source licensing, you never see "since this was my first company, we didn't realize taxes exist"

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> you never see "since this was my first company, we didn't realize taxes exist" Taxes are a nitpicky example, but indeed in Germany where everything is full of regulations and red tape that only some bureaucrats understand, there indeed exist founders who argue this way for these convoluted laws: For example have a look at the popular videos of the following channel (in German): https://www.youtube.com/@Nordwolle/videos https://www.youtube.com/@Nordwolle/videos
- tormeh 1y ago
  That's different. Last time I checked he's not arguing that he didn't know, but that the regulations are ridiculous and should be changed. Which I think is completely legit. The German economy and everyone who works in it would benefit from this. Moreover, I consider euclidean zoning to be a colossal mistake...
raincole 1y ago
I missed revenue reporting[0] for my one-man studio once. This was exactly what I told the authority. I got fined anyway. [0]: Not in the US.
matthewmacleod 1y ago
This happens literally all the time.
Hamuko 1y ago
It's usually never a blatant "I didn't realise taxes exist" but more like "I didn't know I couldn't add haircuts to my company's tax deducts".