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>just let those 10 million stay in the country and avoid similar things in the future But this is what I’m getting at, this is not the first time this has happ

by Dig1t 1y ago

>just let those 10 million stay in the country and avoid similar things in the future But this is what I’m getting at, this is not the first time this has happened, it’s been happening with millions of people for generations now. Heck Reagan pardoned millions back in the 1980’s. So how long are we supposed to keep saying “okay you guys can stay but let’s do better in the future”? After so many decades it is obvious that nothing is going to change without some kind of drastic political change, which is basically why Trump was elected. But just looking at the system from a Birds Eye view: it’s easy in, difficult out. All it takes is one president to not enforce the law and the law is basically moot. Just seems disingenuous the people saying deporting people is horrible yet offering no solutions other than to just let them all stay here forever. We are well past the point where saying we’ll do better in the future is an argument that anyone will accept. Why is there nobody suggesting a law to expedite or fast track the “due process”? That at least seems like a moderate approach.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
> people saying deporting people is horrible No, you are not hearing what I am saying. This particular implementation of deportations puts you and I and anyone else at long-term risk of being deported in a similar manner. It puts legal residents at a more immediate risk of being deported in a similar manner. You can’t fast-track due process; that is the point. If you are not afforded due process for allegations that you are an illegal immigrant before you are shipped away then the damage is done and it doesn’t matter that you can prove you were born here to parents who were born here.
- Dig1t 1y ago
  I understand what you’re saying and I can agree with you that the rule of law is important. You are ignoring the fact that the previous admin ignored due process for letting them in in the first place, but that was not my original question. You still have not offered any kind of solution other than letting them all stay forever, and at this point the majority of the electorate is more interested in seeing them all go back than making sure that every single one gets their day in court. > You can’t fast-track due process We can make laws and change systems, a serious good faith solution would be to propose changes to the due process to account for this case we keep finding ourselves in where we have 20 million people who need to be processed and a system with no hope of handling them all.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    > a serious good faith solution You are free to offer something yourself. I was answering your question: > Do you have a proposed solution other than decades worth of court dates? No, I don’t. At least, not one that doesn’t degrade rule of law. I’m all ears for better solutions but this shit I’m seeing ain’t it.
    - aydyn 1y ago
      It kind of sounds like you need to offer a solution not him. Because his side did come up with a solution and are implementing it.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
        Some people start abducting anyone off the streets and it’s called a “solution” so other people who don’t like it need to shut up or offer a better one? Well, we are each entitled to our opinion and I don’t agree with that one. Anyway, here’s a better solution: let them stay. I can’t see how that would be nearly as bad as this. For me personally, for my neighbors, for the rust belt, indeed for anybody except those wanting to abuse power.
        aydyn 1y ago
        I think this conversation is very clearly people speaking past each other. Let's reset. They are asking for a solution that is realistic. Something that is happening right now is, by definition, a realistic outcome. "Let everyone stay" is not a realistic solution for obvious reasons.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
        > They are asking for a solution that is realistic. Indeed, they asked for “a good faith solution to the problem other than just letting them all stay here forever” and I explicitly said I did not have this. I also see them and you saying “someone” should come up with a solution and, failing to find one yourselves, say deportation without any court hearing is acceptable. I’ve outlined my reasons for why that is dangerous and unacceptable and you just throw up your hands and say it must happen because it’s happening. (Did you notice how you went from “solution” to “outcome” and then back to “solution”? People are decrying the “outcome” because it’s a shit “solution”. Yes, it seems we are talking past each other.)
sorcerer-mar 1y ago
Can you state specifically which law the prior administration chose not to enforce?
- Whoppertime 1y ago
  The Joe Biden Administration didn't continue the Remain in Mexico policy and brought over people to America who they lost contact with after scheduling a court date.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    "Remain in Mexico" isn't a law, and in fact the legality of that original Trump policy is still unsettled (but it probably isn't legal without an act of Congress given its clear incompatibility with the INA). The 9th Circuit shut it down within its jurisdiction before the Biden admin did. In other words: this is bullshit. Try again? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812474279/court-blocks-trumps-remain-in-mexico-policy-along-part-of-the-border https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812474279/court-blocks-trumps...

by Dig1t 1y ago

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago

> people saying deporting people is horrible No, you are not hearing what I am saying. This particular implementation of deportations puts you and I and anyone else at long-term risk of being deported in a similar manner. It puts legal residents at a more immediate risk of being deported in a similar manner. You can’t fast-track due process; that is the point. If you are not afforded due process for allegations that you are an illegal immigrant before you are shipped away then the damage is done and it doesn’t matter that you can prove you were born here to parents who were born here.

Dig1t 1y ago
I understand what you’re saying and I can agree with you that the rule of law is important. You are ignoring the fact that the previous admin ignored due process for letting them in in the first place, but that was not my original question. You still have not offered any kind of solution other than letting them all stay forever, and at this point the majority of the electorate is more interested in seeing them all go back than making sure that every single one gets their day in court. > You can’t fast-track due process We can make laws and change systems, a serious good faith solution would be to propose changes to the due process to account for this case we keep finding ourselves in where we have 20 million people who need to be processed and a system with no hope of handling them all.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  > a serious good faith solution You are free to offer something yourself. I was answering your question: > Do you have a proposed solution other than decades worth of court dates? No, I don’t. At least, not one that doesn’t degrade rule of law. I’m all ears for better solutions but this shit I’m seeing ain’t it.
  - aydyn 1y ago
    It kind of sounds like you need to offer a solution not him. Because his side did come up with a solution and are implementing it.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      Some people start abducting anyone off the streets and it’s called a “solution” so other people who don’t like it need to shut up or offer a better one? Well, we are each entitled to our opinion and I don’t agree with that one. Anyway, here’s a better solution: let them stay. I can’t see how that would be nearly as bad as this. For me personally, for my neighbors, for the rust belt, indeed for anybody except those wanting to abuse power.
      - aydyn 1y ago
        I think this conversation is very clearly people speaking past each other. Let's reset. They are asking for a solution that is realistic. Something that is happening right now is, by definition, a realistic outcome. "Let everyone stay" is not a realistic solution for obvious reasons.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
        > They are asking for a solution that is realistic. Indeed, they asked for “a good faith solution to the problem other than just letting them all stay here forever” and I explicitly said I did not have this. I also see them and you saying “someone” should come up with a solution and, failing to find one yourselves, say deportation without any court hearing is acceptable. I’ve outlined my reasons for why that is dangerous and unacceptable and you just throw up your hands and say it must happen because it’s happening. (Did you notice how you went from “solution” to “outcome” and then back to “solution”? People are decrying the “outcome” because it’s a shit “solution”. Yes, it seems we are talking past each other.)

sorcerer-mar 1y ago

Can you state specifically which law the prior administration chose not to enforce?

Whoppertime 1y ago
The Joe Biden Administration didn't continue the Remain in Mexico policy and brought over people to America who they lost contact with after scheduling a court date.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  "Remain in Mexico" isn't a law, and in fact the legality of that original Trump policy is still unsettled (but it probably isn't legal without an act of Congress given its clear incompatibility with the INA). The 9th Circuit shut it down within its jurisdiction before the Biden admin did. In other words: this is bullshit. Try again? https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812474279/court-blocks-trumps-remain-in-mexico-policy-along-part-of-the-border https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812474279/court-blocks-trumps...