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I think the key difference is the usage of face masks and plainclothes - as far as I can tell, from various different news articles - ICE agents weren't conceal

by Upas 1y ago

I think the key difference is the usage of face masks and plainclothes - as far as I can tell, from various different news articles - ICE agents weren't concealing their identities en masse using face masks under Biden and Obama. Based on historical examples of secret police, plainclothes and face masks on Federal Agents by default could definitely make people think that we are "approaching a police state".

db48x 1y ago
I guess it could be purely a misperception that will vanish mysteriously in four years.
- popularrecluse 1y ago
  So real reporting of happenings from news outlets that don't comport with your desired reality : misperception. Got it.
  - db48x 1y ago
    I’m not sure exactly what you mean. It’s an objective fact that ICE was removing almost 3× as many people per month this time last year, but that nobody cared at the time. If it’s all about perceptions rather than the objective reality then that makes some sense. All the president has to do is to make a few speeches about how tough on illegal immigration his administration is going to be and people’s perceptions will shift enough that they suddenly care. Now that someone cares enough to start making threats against federal officers, the officers start wearing masks and bullet–proof vests. This apparently causes perceptions to shift even more and people start thinking we live in a police state. But the reality is that they’re doing ⅓rd of the work. They’re literally arresting fewer people. If anything, that makes it _less_ of a police state than before. And the law that ICE is upholding was passed last amended in by Congress in 1996, so it’s not like Trump has suddenly given them a new job to do. So yea, I would say that it’s a misperception. The perception doesn't appear to agree with the objective facts.
    - tomjakubowski 1y ago
      > It’s an objective fact that ICE was removing almost 3× as many people per month this time last year It is? What is your source for this? According to TRAC's published stats, in May 2024, ICE booked 8,451 people into detention. In May 2025, ICE booked 23,662 people into detention. https://tracreports.org/immigration/detentionstats/book_in_agen_program_table.html https://tracreports.org/immigration/detentionstats/book_in_a...
      - db48x 1y ago
        I should probably have said “removed” rather than “arrested”, since not every person removed gets arrested. I am using the DHS’s own statistics <https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2022/table39 https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2022/table3...> which cover every year from 1892 to 2022. For Biden’s term and Trump’s current term I used estimates found in news reports though I don’t have the links in front of me. The estimate for Trump’s current term was just for the first four months of the year.
    - colpabar 1y ago
      I get what you are saying, honestly, I too wonder why if so many deportations occurred under both obama and biden, why didn't anyone seem to care? Why weren't judges trying to block that from happening? But then I remember that trump is invoking the ancient "war powers act" to do them. Why didn't obama or biden have to do that if they were able to deport so many people? I also remember when that psycho dog-killing-enjoyer kristi noem tweeted "suck it" when a group of people who were trying to use legal means to not get deported got deported. Fuck her. You say it's a misperception, but I think we are all perceiving it exactly as they want us to. They are going to do whatever they can get away with by any means necessary and fuck you if you try to get in the way. Some people just think that's bad.
      - db48x 1y ago
        You might have confused two different things. There's been a bit of a fight over whether the President can intervene in Iran and Yemen recently, since Congress hasn’t declared a war. But that has nothing to do with immigration. > psycho dog-killing-enjoyer kristi noem If you want anyone to take you seriously then don’t call people names. State your claim without ad hominem attacks or other obvious fallacies.

by Upas 1y ago

db48x 1y ago

I guess it could be purely a misperception that will vanish mysteriously in four years.

popularrecluse 1y ago
So real reporting of happenings from news outlets that don't comport with your desired reality : misperception. Got it.
- db48x 1y ago
  I’m not sure exactly what you mean. It’s an objective fact that ICE was removing almost 3× as many people per month this time last year, but that nobody cared at the time. If it’s all about perceptions rather than the objective reality then that makes some sense. All the president has to do is to make a few speeches about how tough on illegal immigration his administration is going to be and people’s perceptions will shift enough that they suddenly care. Now that someone cares enough to start making threats against federal officers, the officers start wearing masks and bullet–proof vests. This apparently causes perceptions to shift even more and people start thinking we live in a police state. But the reality is that they’re doing ⅓rd of the work. They’re literally arresting fewer people. If anything, that makes it _less_ of a police state than before. And the law that ICE is upholding was passed last amended in by Congress in 1996, so it’s not like Trump has suddenly given them a new job to do. So yea, I would say that it’s a misperception. The perception doesn't appear to agree with the objective facts.
  - tomjakubowski 1y ago
    > It’s an objective fact that ICE was removing almost 3× as many people per month this time last year It is? What is your source for this? According to TRAC's published stats, in May 2024, ICE booked 8,451 people into detention. In May 2025, ICE booked 23,662 people into detention. https://tracreports.org/immigration/detentionstats/book_in_agen_program_table.html https://tracreports.org/immigration/detentionstats/book_in_a...
    - db48x 1y ago
      I should probably have said “removed” rather than “arrested”, since not every person removed gets arrested. I am using the DHS’s own statistics <https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2022/table39 https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2022/table3...> which cover every year from 1892 to 2022. For Biden’s term and Trump’s current term I used estimates found in news reports though I don’t have the links in front of me. The estimate for Trump’s current term was just for the first four months of the year.
  - colpabar 1y ago
    I get what you are saying, honestly, I too wonder why if so many deportations occurred under both obama and biden, why didn't anyone seem to care? Why weren't judges trying to block that from happening? But then I remember that trump is invoking the ancient "war powers act" to do them. Why didn't obama or biden have to do that if they were able to deport so many people? I also remember when that psycho dog-killing-enjoyer kristi noem tweeted "suck it" when a group of people who were trying to use legal means to not get deported got deported. Fuck her. You say it's a misperception, but I think we are all perceiving it exactly as they want us to. They are going to do whatever they can get away with by any means necessary and fuck you if you try to get in the way. Some people just think that's bad.
    - db48x 1y ago
      You might have confused two different things. There's been a bit of a fight over whether the President can intervene in Iran and Yemen recently, since Congress hasn’t declared a war. But that has nothing to do with immigration. > psycho dog-killing-enjoyer kristi noem If you want anyone to take you seriously then don’t call people names. State your claim without ad hominem attacks or other obvious fallacies.