4 ms·

Interesting. I basically dont touch python unless I have too becayse the lack of tooling. How does this tooling compare to an experience like working in Go?

CraigJPerry 1y ago
It's not rivaling Go anytime soon but there have been leaps and bounds. E.g. uv init --script foo.py uv add --script foo.py httpx cat foo.py ... dependencies = ['httpx'] ... Then on another machine: uv run foo.py # creates a virtual env, reads foo.py to see httpx is a dependency, installs in the ephemeral venv then runs the script The above is from memory typed on a phone so maybe some minor syntax issues but the point i tried to make was we can kinda emulate the convenience of statically compiled binaries a-la Go these days
- cssanchez 1y ago
  I don't mean to be rude, but I don't get how this is any better. Feels too manual to type "uv -add dep script.py" instead, I feel the automation tool I'm waiting for will scan my script, auto-import all the deps I'm calling in the script while ignoring the ones that I forget to use, AND set up the env with all the deps AND run the code in the same one liner. To me, uv add X is no different than running env/pip install requirements.txt.
  - notatallshaw 1y ago
    What people like about this workflow is that you're not maintaining a separate venv or a separate requirement and it's declarative rather than imperative, this gives you two big advantages: First, you can move that script to a different machine and do `uv run {script}`, no need to recreate a venv or provide install instructions (I believe uv will now even grab an appropriate version of Python if you don't have it?). This comes from PEP 723, and multiple tools support doing this, such as hatch. Second, when you "add" a requirement instead of "install" a requirement it manages that with the knowledge of all requirements that were added before. For example, if I `pip install foo` and then `pip install bar` pip does not consider foo or it's dependencies as required when installing bar, so it's possible that you can break `foo` by installing completely incompatible dependencies. But when you "add foo" and then "add bar" from uv (and other tools that are declarative, like Poetry) your environment gets updated to take everything into account. If managing Python dependencies is second nature to you then these might seem like extra concepts to keep in your head, but lots of people do find these useful because they find they can think less about Python dependencies.
  - CraigJPerry 1y ago
    Compare the before vs after Before (analogous to go mod init): python -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate python -m pip install -U pip pip install httpx pip freeze > requirements.txt nvim foo.py # find a way to share foo.py and requirements.txt On another machine (still the before scenario, this time analogous to maybe go run): python -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate python -m pip install -U pip pip install -r requirements.txt python foo.py In the after scenario: uv run foo.py That's it. Comparable to ./my-go-binary
- balanced2 1y ago
  Just curious where do you see it not rival Go? Go is my main, but I do help with some python projects and I was really happy migrating from poetry to uv, with my feeling being that uv brings Go's devex to Python. The biggest feature is probably the default of auto-sync, the only way to have reproducible builds, of course along with auto provision python. Personally I can't think of anything from Go's build system I miss now - the languages are very different for sure, but I guess we're talking about the build system only.
  - CraigJPerry 1y ago
    As someone who strongly favours Java and Python, Go is kinda the ultimate when it comes to out of the box tooling. I think Java still has the crown overall but that's because of tooling in the ecosystem, not tooling that comes with a jvm. Want to profile your go? pprof built in (to be fair python has had cProfile forever but the Go version is more convenient to read the output). Want to run some tests, or better yet some benchmarks? A good take on the problem space is just built in. You can safely go with the default and don't need to spend mental tax credits on selecting the best benchmarking lib from the ecosystem. Stuff like go fmt is just taken for granted but even in the python world, there are still some non-black (and compatibles like ruff) flavoured formatters floating around - probably the most common on GH even today in Python is no formatter. Can go on and on - go generate (maybe a tiny bit less relevant with generics being available today?), go tool, go vet, ...

CraigJPerry 1y ago

It's not rivaling Go anytime soon but there have been leaps and bounds. E.g. uv init --script foo.py uv add --script foo.py httpx cat foo.py ... dependencies = ['httpx'] ... Then on another machine: uv run foo.py # creates a virtual env, reads foo.py to see httpx is a dependency, installs in the ephemeral venv then runs the script The above is from memory typed on a phone so maybe some minor syntax issues but the point i tried to make was we can kinda emulate the convenience of statically compiled binaries a-la Go these days

cssanchez 1y ago
I don't mean to be rude, but I don't get how this is any better. Feels too manual to type "uv -add dep script.py" instead, I feel the automation tool I'm waiting for will scan my script, auto-import all the deps I'm calling in the script while ignoring the ones that I forget to use, AND set up the env with all the deps AND run the code in the same one liner. To me, uv add X is no different than running env/pip install requirements.txt.
- notatallshaw 1y ago
  What people like about this workflow is that you're not maintaining a separate venv or a separate requirement and it's declarative rather than imperative, this gives you two big advantages: First, you can move that script to a different machine and do `uv run {script}`, no need to recreate a venv or provide install instructions (I believe uv will now even grab an appropriate version of Python if you don't have it?). This comes from PEP 723, and multiple tools support doing this, such as hatch. Second, when you "add" a requirement instead of "install" a requirement it manages that with the knowledge of all requirements that were added before. For example, if I `pip install foo` and then `pip install bar` pip does not consider foo or it's dependencies as required when installing bar, so it's possible that you can break `foo` by installing completely incompatible dependencies. But when you "add foo" and then "add bar" from uv (and other tools that are declarative, like Poetry) your environment gets updated to take everything into account. If managing Python dependencies is second nature to you then these might seem like extra concepts to keep in your head, but lots of people do find these useful because they find they can think less about Python dependencies.
- CraigJPerry 1y ago
  Compare the before vs after Before (analogous to go mod init): python -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate python -m pip install -U pip pip install httpx pip freeze > requirements.txt nvim foo.py # find a way to share foo.py and requirements.txt On another machine (still the before scenario, this time analogous to maybe go run): python -m venv venv source venv/bin/activate python -m pip install -U pip pip install -r requirements.txt python foo.py In the after scenario: uv run foo.py That's it. Comparable to ./my-go-binary
balanced2 1y ago
Just curious where do you see it not rival Go? Go is my main, but I do help with some python projects and I was really happy migrating from poetry to uv, with my feeling being that uv brings Go's devex to Python. The biggest feature is probably the default of auto-sync, the only way to have reproducible builds, of course along with auto provision python. Personally I can't think of anything from Go's build system I miss now - the languages are very different for sure, but I guess we're talking about the build system only.
- CraigJPerry 1y ago
  As someone who strongly favours Java and Python, Go is kinda the ultimate when it comes to out of the box tooling. I think Java still has the crown overall but that's because of tooling in the ecosystem, not tooling that comes with a jvm. Want to profile your go? pprof built in (to be fair python has had cProfile forever but the Go version is more convenient to read the output). Want to run some tests, or better yet some benchmarks? A good take on the problem space is just built in. You can safely go with the default and don't need to spend mental tax credits on selecting the best benchmarking lib from the ecosystem. Stuff like go fmt is just taken for granted but even in the python world, there are still some non-black (and compatibles like ruff) flavoured formatters floating around - probably the most common on GH even today in Python is no formatter. Can go on and on - go generate (maybe a tiny bit less relevant with generics being available today?), go tool, go vet, ...