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Over the years I've moved away from thinking of the daily standup as being a way to update everyone on what we're doing. The value in it is having a daily time

Over the years I've moved away from thinking of the daily standup as being a way to update everyone on what we're doing. The value in it is having a daily time when everyone on the team sees each other's faces and has a brief conversation. Sometimes it'll be a quick hello, other times we'll talk for half an hour about nothing in particular, but that's valuable on a remote team where it's all to easy to forget that everyone else is a real person.

CuriouslyC 1y ago
That's what happy hours and optional team activities are for. After hours gaming groups, book clubs, hobby groups, etc do this much better.
- esafak 1y ago
  You don't have those things when working remotely. You need to foster social relations at work too; after-work socializing is not a substitute for a collaborative work atmosphere.
  - gunsle 1y ago
    You don’t “need” to foster social relations at work. They will naturally arise as people work together. This idea that we need to turn the workplace into a big “family” is nonsensical corporate propaganda pushed by HR departments primarily staffed by women. I promise, most men don’t give a single fuck about “fostering social relationships” at work. The guys I have respected and became the most friendly with at work have been the ones I’m in the trenches with, designing, building, etc. I don’t need to know what Susan in HR’s kid did over the weekend, it’s legitimately useless information to my entire life. I’ve got ~90 years on this planet at best. I’m not interested in wasting 1/5th of my working career in meetings, listening to people I don’t even know, telling me personal details about their lives I will not retain for more than 5 seconds. To me, it’s genuinely insulting to my time to waste it with these pointless fake displays of familiarity instead of getting to the work at hand and ending the meeting early.
    - esafak 1y ago
      Why would they want to be in trenches with you, collaborate on a project, start a company, or otherwise stick their neck out for you, if they don't know you? They'll pick someone they enjoy rapport with.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  That seems socially punishing for people with other obligations (parents) and anyone who’s just not interested in the activities.
- account42 1y ago
  No thanks, I have my own hobbies and friends. Activities that primarily benefit work, including team building exercises, should be during paid company time.
varispeed 1y ago
People are real whether or not you see their faces or chat daily. Framing daily standups as "humanising" can end up dehumanising those who find enforced face time and small talk uncomfortable or exhausting - especially neurodivergent team members. Inclusivity means recognising that not everyone bonds the same way.
- varispeed 1y ago
  Surprised by the downvotes, honestly. Inclusivity isn't about asking everyone to conform to neurotypical norms - it's about creating space for different ways of working and communicating. If even mentioning that feels unwelcome, that says something worth reflecting on.
  - tstrimple 1y ago
    I think the issue it that you're speaking to an ideal that doesn't tend to stand up in reality. The reality is if people stop seeing your face in meetings people are less likely to think about you. This may feel good to the stereotypical introvert who just wants to get things done and be left alone. But it can be a career killer. This is very apparent in hybrid companies where folks in the office with incidental face time have an easier time advancing than remote employees regardless of value added. We can state that it's not fair and things should be different and more inclusive but that doesn't do anything to actually make environments more inclusive.
    - varispeed 1y ago
      Calling it a "career killer" to avoid constant face time ignores the reality that many people are masking disabilities just to survive daily interactions. Burnout from that kind of masking _is_ a career killer - just a quieter, slower one. We wouldn't tell someone in a wheelchair to "get more visible by taking the stairs." Yet we build ramps, pat ourselves on the back, and ignore invisible disabilities entirely. The fact that this kind of exclusion is still seen as normal - even strategic - should be a source of shame, not resignation.
    - guappa 1y ago

CuriouslyC 1y ago

That's what happy hours and optional team activities are for. After hours gaming groups, book clubs, hobby groups, etc do this much better.

esafak 1y ago
You don't have those things when working remotely. You need to foster social relations at work too; after-work socializing is not a substitute for a collaborative work atmosphere.
- gunsle 1y ago
  You don’t “need” to foster social relations at work. They will naturally arise as people work together. This idea that we need to turn the workplace into a big “family” is nonsensical corporate propaganda pushed by HR departments primarily staffed by women. I promise, most men don’t give a single fuck about “fostering social relationships” at work. The guys I have respected and became the most friendly with at work have been the ones I’m in the trenches with, designing, building, etc. I don’t need to know what Susan in HR’s kid did over the weekend, it’s legitimately useless information to my entire life. I’ve got ~90 years on this planet at best. I’m not interested in wasting 1/5th of my working career in meetings, listening to people I don’t even know, telling me personal details about their lives I will not retain for more than 5 seconds. To me, it’s genuinely insulting to my time to waste it with these pointless fake displays of familiarity instead of getting to the work at hand and ending the meeting early.
  - esafak 1y ago
    Why would they want to be in trenches with you, collaborate on a project, start a company, or otherwise stick their neck out for you, if they don't know you? They'll pick someone they enjoy rapport with.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
That seems socially punishing for people with other obligations (parents) and anyone who’s just not interested in the activities.
account42 1y ago
No thanks, I have my own hobbies and friends. Activities that primarily benefit work, including team building exercises, should be during paid company time.

varispeed 1y ago

People are real whether or not you see their faces or chat daily. Framing daily standups as "humanising" can end up dehumanising those who find enforced face time and small talk uncomfortable or exhausting - especially neurodivergent team members. Inclusivity means recognising that not everyone bonds the same way.

varispeed 1y ago
Surprised by the downvotes, honestly. Inclusivity isn't about asking everyone to conform to neurotypical norms - it's about creating space for different ways of working and communicating. If even mentioning that feels unwelcome, that says something worth reflecting on.
- tstrimple 1y ago
  I think the issue it that you're speaking to an ideal that doesn't tend to stand up in reality. The reality is if people stop seeing your face in meetings people are less likely to think about you. This may feel good to the stereotypical introvert who just wants to get things done and be left alone. But it can be a career killer. This is very apparent in hybrid companies where folks in the office with incidental face time have an easier time advancing than remote employees regardless of value added. We can state that it's not fair and things should be different and more inclusive but that doesn't do anything to actually make environments more inclusive.
  - varispeed 1y ago
    Calling it a "career killer" to avoid constant face time ignores the reality that many people are masking disabilities just to survive daily interactions. Burnout from that kind of masking _is_ a career killer - just a quieter, slower one. We wouldn't tell someone in a wheelchair to "get more visible by taking the stairs." Yet we build ramps, pat ourselves on the back, and ignore invisible disabilities entirely. The fact that this kind of exclusion is still seen as normal - even strategic - should be a source of shame, not resignation.
  - guappa 1y ago