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> It's big business, has been for almost 5,000 years I think you're confusing "Egyptian economic activity related to tourism" with "the existence of civilizati

> It's big business, has been for almost 5,000 years I think you're confusing "Egyptian economic activity related to tourism" with "the existence of civilization in Egypt".

9dev 1y ago
Nope. There are literally voyage reports by Herodotus, who describes guides to the pyramids, street food vendors, and translators. That was about 2500 years ago, for example.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  You might notice that 2500 years ago is a lot less than 5000 years ago. 5000 years ago, there were no guides to the pyramids. There was no tourism. There wasn't really writing, either. Today tourism makes up a little more than 10% of the economy of Egypt. 2500 years ago, it would have been around 0%, for the simple reason that almost nobody could afford to be a tourist. The big businesses were grain and gold. 5000 years ago, it was actually 0%. That's when the desertification of the Sahara began and the people who had lived there came to Egypt and inserted themselves at the top of society.
  - A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
    > That's when the desertification of the Sahara began and the people who had lived there came to Egypt and inserted themselves at the top of society. It's very interesting to imagine the "green Sahara" cultures, with all of their cities and temples now under tons of sand, that we otherwise have no knowledge of.
  - JetSpiegel 1y ago
    Just because they were called pilgrims, they did the same thing as modeen tourists, with the corresponding economic activities: visiting landmarks, sleeping, eating, shopping. Praying wasn't even free, if they had to sacrifice some animal.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
timschmidt 1y ago
No, I'm not. The Great Pyramid was built circa 2500 - 2600 BC, or about 4600 years ago. I think it's fair to say that civilization was humming before that, and that even the construction likely attracted tourists. Seems to be part of the point of monuments. Djoser's pyramid seems to have been completed around a hundred years prior to that, and would have drawn crowds sufficient to warrant the large temple, grand entrance, and colonnades which are part of the complex. There is a great deal of evidence that offerings provided by people traveling to these complexes sustained the religious orders on site who provided guardianship, maintenance, and worship. And that this was planned as part of the construction.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  The tomb and temple complexes aren't built to accommodate demand. They're built at the size the king wants them to be, and used for official ceremonies.
  - hoseja 1y ago
    Try imagining what those official ceremonies are for actually.
    - thaumasiotes 1y ago
      They're for building the legitimacy of the king. What do you want me to imagine?
      - timschmidt 1y ago
        A different perspective which has a lot more explanatory power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItAQSrlG9WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItAQSrlG9WQ
      - hoseja 1y ago
        Literally what do you imagine "legitimacy" is? Like down at the ground. What is it actually. What does the word you read in textbooks mean besides a vague idea.

> It's big business, has been for almost 5,000 years I think you're confusing "Egyptian economic activity related to tourism" with "the existence of civilization in Egypt".

9dev 1y ago

Nope. There are literally voyage reports by Herodotus, who describes guides to the pyramids, street food vendors, and translators. That was about 2500 years ago, for example.

thaumasiotes 1y ago
You might notice that 2500 years ago is a lot less than 5000 years ago. 5000 years ago, there were no guides to the pyramids. There was no tourism. There wasn't really writing, either. Today tourism makes up a little more than 10% of the economy of Egypt. 2500 years ago, it would have been around 0%, for the simple reason that almost nobody could afford to be a tourist. The big businesses were grain and gold. 5000 years ago, it was actually 0%. That's when the desertification of the Sahara began and the people who had lived there came to Egypt and inserted themselves at the top of society.
- A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
  > That's when the desertification of the Sahara began and the people who had lived there came to Egypt and inserted themselves at the top of society. It's very interesting to imagine the "green Sahara" cultures, with all of their cities and temples now under tons of sand, that we otherwise have no knowledge of.
- JetSpiegel 1y ago
  Just because they were called pilgrims, they did the same thing as modeen tourists, with the corresponding economic activities: visiting landmarks, sleeping, eating, shopping. Praying wasn't even free, if they had to sacrifice some animal.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

timschmidt 1y ago

No, I'm not. The Great Pyramid was built circa 2500 - 2600 BC, or about 4600 years ago. I think it's fair to say that civilization was humming before that, and that even the construction likely attracted tourists. Seems to be part of the point of monuments. Djoser's pyramid seems to have been completed around a hundred years prior to that, and would have drawn crowds sufficient to warrant the large temple, grand entrance, and colonnades which are part of the complex. There is a great deal of evidence that offerings provided by people traveling to these complexes sustained the religious orders on site who provided guardianship, maintenance, and worship. And that this was planned as part of the construction.

thaumasiotes 1y ago
The tomb and temple complexes aren't built to accommodate demand. They're built at the size the king wants them to be, and used for official ceremonies.
- hoseja 1y ago
  Try imagining what those official ceremonies are for actually.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    They're for building the legitimacy of the king. What do you want me to imagine?
    - timschmidt 1y ago
      A different perspective which has a lot more explanatory power: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItAQSrlG9WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItAQSrlG9WQ
    - hoseja 1y ago
      Literally what do you imagine "legitimacy" is? Like down at the ground. What is it actually. What does the word you read in textbooks mean besides a vague idea.