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> It isn’t even a “real” racism… Generating and distributing racist materials is racist regardless of the intent, even if the person "doesn't mean it". Simple

> It isn’t even a “real” racism… Generating and distributing racist materials is racist regardless of the intent, even if the person "doesn't mean it". Simple thought experiment: If the content was CSAM, would you still excuse the perpetrators as victims of perversely incentivized attention economics?

fluidcruft 1y ago
I don't follow your CSAM bit but I have no outrage about Blazing Saddles existing, for example.
- jazzyjackson 1y ago
  It would indeed be an impressive feat to produce a film satirizing child porn
  - defrost 1y ago
    Off the cuff the closest example to mind is the Paedogeddon!! special episode of the Brass Eye series created by Chris Morris. Admittedly that didn't satirize CSAM material, rather it cut hard into the reflexive reaction people have at the very thought of CSAM and peodophiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedogeddon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedogeddon Moreover, that took a human to thread that needle, it'll be a while before AI generation can pass through that strange valley.
    - RockRobotRock 1y ago
      This is the one thing we didn't want to happen
      - accoil 1y ago
        AI creating satire about media spreading hysteria? I don't think it's at that point.
drdaeman 1y ago
I agree, but I believe the intent matters if we’re trying to identify why this happens. Racism is just less legally dangerous. There would be people posting snuff or CSAM videos, would that “sell”. Make social networks tough on racism and it’ll be sexism next day. Or extremist politics. Or animal abuse. Or, really, anything, as long as people strongly react to it. But, yeah, to avoid any misunderstanding - I didn’t mean to say racism isn’t an issue. It is racist, it’s bad, I don’t argue any otherwise. All I want to stress is that it’s not the real issue here, merely a particular manifestation.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  >it’s not the real issue here I like this reasoning. “Trolling” is when people post things to irritate or offend people, so if you see something that’s both racist and offensive then it’s not really racist. If you see somebody posting intentionally offensive racist stuff, and you have no other information about them, you should assume that the offensiveness of their post is an indicator of how not racist they are. Really if you think about it, it’s like a graph where as offensiveness goes up the racism goes down becau
  - drdaeman 1y ago
    That’s not what I meant, though. When I wrote “not really racist” I meant “the primary cause for posting this is not racism[, but engagement solicitation]”, rather than “not racist”. And it’s not an implication, but only an observation paired with my (and article authors’) guess about the actual intent. I’m sorry for the confusion, I guess I worded that poorly. But, yeah, as weird as it may sound, you don’t have to be racist (as in believing in racist ideas) to be a racist troll (propagate racist ideas). Publishing and agreeing with are different things, and they don’t always overlap (even if they frequently do). He who had not ever said or wrote some BS without believing a single iota of it but because they wanted to make some effect, throw the stone. And not sure how sarcastic you were, but nothing I’ve said could possibly mean if something is offensive it’s what somehow makes it less racist.
    - jrflowers 1y ago
whamlastxmas 1y ago
I think maybe the nuance they’re trying to capture is that yes the content is absolutely freaking racist but the reason it’s being spread isn’t racists laughing at it and liking it, it’s people being angry about it
Dig1t 1y ago
The creation of CSAM is a crime because an underage person must be harmed in its creation by definition. Making an AI video of an offensive stereotype does not harm anyone in its creation. It is textbook free speech. Clutch your pearls as much as you want about the videos, but forcibly censoring them is going to cause you to continue to lose elections.
- plaguuuuuu 1y ago
  Nobody said anything about governments banning it. We're pointing it out as something harfmul. I'll also happily exercise my free speech (I'm not from the US so it's free, as in - you can't stop me)
HK-NC 1y ago
I don't think child porn and tired racist stereotypes are the same. Even content showing murder would be ignored by most and none of us, I assume, are pro murder. I dont assume everyone that uses a sexy female thumbnail is a gooner, just farming goons. I think the original poster has a fair point, having seen the videos, they lack the usual cherrypicked accuracy of content made by genuinely racist creators and instead go for.. Watermelon. My friends are about as bothered by watermelon as an irishman is about cartoon leprechauns, but I'm not in the USA so perhaps its a cultural thing.

fluidcruft 1y ago

I don't follow your CSAM bit but I have no outrage about Blazing Saddles existing, for example.

jazzyjackson 1y ago
It would indeed be an impressive feat to produce a film satirizing child porn
- defrost 1y ago
  Off the cuff the closest example to mind is the Paedogeddon!! special episode of the Brass Eye series created by Chris Morris. Admittedly that didn't satirize CSAM material, rather it cut hard into the reflexive reaction people have at the very thought of CSAM and peodophiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedogeddon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedogeddon Moreover, that took a human to thread that needle, it'll be a while before AI generation can pass through that strange valley.
  - RockRobotRock 1y ago
    This is the one thing we didn't want to happen
    - accoil 1y ago
      AI creating satire about media spreading hysteria? I don't think it's at that point.

drdaeman 1y ago

I agree, but I believe the intent matters if we’re trying to identify why this happens. Racism is just less legally dangerous. There would be people posting snuff or CSAM videos, would that “sell”. Make social networks tough on racism and it’ll be sexism next day. Or extremist politics. Or animal abuse. Or, really, anything, as long as people strongly react to it. But, yeah, to avoid any misunderstanding - I didn’t mean to say racism isn’t an issue. It is racist, it’s bad, I don’t argue any otherwise. All I want to stress is that it’s not the real issue here, merely a particular manifestation.

jrflowers 1y ago
>it’s not the real issue here I like this reasoning. “Trolling” is when people post things to irritate or offend people, so if you see something that’s both racist and offensive then it’s not really racist. If you see somebody posting intentionally offensive racist stuff, and you have no other information about them, you should assume that the offensiveness of their post is an indicator of how not racist they are. Really if you think about it, it’s like a graph where as offensiveness goes up the racism goes down becau
- drdaeman 1y ago
  That’s not what I meant, though. When I wrote “not really racist” I meant “the primary cause for posting this is not racism[, but engagement solicitation]”, rather than “not racist”. And it’s not an implication, but only an observation paired with my (and article authors’) guess about the actual intent. I’m sorry for the confusion, I guess I worded that poorly. But, yeah, as weird as it may sound, you don’t have to be racist (as in believing in racist ideas) to be a racist troll (propagate racist ideas). Publishing and agreeing with are different things, and they don’t always overlap (even if they frequently do). He who had not ever said or wrote some BS without believing a single iota of it but because they wanted to make some effect, throw the stone. And not sure how sarcastic you were, but nothing I’ve said could possibly mean if something is offensive it’s what somehow makes it less racist.
  - jrflowers 1y ago

whamlastxmas 1y ago

I think maybe the nuance they’re trying to capture is that yes the content is absolutely freaking racist but the reason it’s being spread isn’t racists laughing at it and liking it, it’s people being angry about it

Dig1t 1y ago

The creation of CSAM is a crime because an underage person must be harmed in its creation by definition. Making an AI video of an offensive stereotype does not harm anyone in its creation. It is textbook free speech. Clutch your pearls as much as you want about the videos, but forcibly censoring them is going to cause you to continue to lose elections.

plaguuuuuu 1y ago
Nobody said anything about governments banning it. We're pointing it out as something harfmul. I'll also happily exercise my free speech (I'm not from the US so it's free, as in - you can't stop me)

HK-NC 1y ago

I don't think child porn and tired racist stereotypes are the same. Even content showing murder would be ignored by most and none of us, I assume, are pro murder. I dont assume everyone that uses a sexy female thumbnail is a gooner, just farming goons. I think the original poster has a fair point, having seen the videos, they lack the usual cherrypicked accuracy of content made by genuinely racist creators and instead go for.. Watermelon. My friends are about as bothered by watermelon as an irishman is about cartoon leprechauns, but I'm not in the USA so perhaps its a cultural thing.