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But why did the USSR dissolve? A lot of it had to do with citizens’ dissatisfaction with what was available in the Soviet economy, compared to media images of w

But why did the USSR dissolve? A lot of it had to do with citizens’ dissatisfaction with what was available in the Soviet economy, compared to media images of what was available in the 80s-early 90s American economy. And, well, the fact that their government was, in fact, quite democratic, reflecting the wishes of the people. But again… a lot of these images American prosperity of the 80s were caused by marketing, and corporate structures like Jack Welch’s, which were ultimately unsustainable (per the whole conversation here). Basically: Soviet citizens saw we could have bananas year round. But they never saw the conditions of people living in banana republics, or really even of the American poor of the time.

xphos 1y ago
Yeah I'd argue Jack Welch didn't create that value rather he found a way to extract from the corporate mines and give to shareholders and himself very effectively. It has caused the collapse of some but not all those corporate mines. GE is a good example that maximized shareholder value until the shareholders left and there was nothing left for the company. I also wouldn't read to heavily into the USSR collapsing because they saw rich American's they saw that for the entire history of USSR. USSR is complex it honestly worked for people for a little bit during the war (the ones that lived but they did live) but when the pressure of WW2 dropped the optimization functions all went haywire, the same way they were haywire before the war see Ukraine famine 1933. War is a strong optimization function for economies because the cruff is drained but not a constraint you want to live under long term. I am not trying to cheerlead the USSR but I think this is just not really a good metaphor for comparing economies and needs much fine examination to really get into.
sershe 1y ago
As someone who grew up in 5th percentile or higher of Soviet citizens (Moscow, 2 engineer parents) I can tell you that American poor live much better. Think 700sqft flat considered good for a family with 2 kids, not really being able to afford a car, grandma constantly reminding us to not throw away any glass jars - containers to preserve vegetables for the winter were hard to come by. And that's Moscow. Most of the country could be summarized by a riddle - long, green, smells like sausages/groceries, what is it? An intercity train departing Moscow. The Soviet citizens wanted American lifestyle because Soviet lifestyle sucked. The only poor who might be worse off in the US are the completely dysfunctional ones like alcoholics or whatever. At least in the USSR it was hard to sell your flat and drink away the money. But, to me that's not even a tradeoff, it's an additional benefit.

xphos 1y ago

Yeah I'd argue Jack Welch didn't create that value rather he found a way to extract from the corporate mines and give to shareholders and himself very effectively. It has caused the collapse of some but not all those corporate mines. GE is a good example that maximized shareholder value until the shareholders left and there was nothing left for the company. I also wouldn't read to heavily into the USSR collapsing because they saw rich American's they saw that for the entire history of USSR. USSR is complex it honestly worked for people for a little bit during the war (the ones that lived but they did live) but when the pressure of WW2 dropped the optimization functions all went haywire, the same way they were haywire before the war see Ukraine famine 1933. War is a strong optimization function for economies because the cruff is drained but not a constraint you want to live under long term. I am not trying to cheerlead the USSR but I think this is just not really a good metaphor for comparing economies and needs much fine examination to really get into.

sershe 1y ago

As someone who grew up in 5th percentile or higher of Soviet citizens (Moscow, 2 engineer parents) I can tell you that American poor live much better. Think 700sqft flat considered good for a family with 2 kids, not really being able to afford a car, grandma constantly reminding us to not throw away any glass jars - containers to preserve vegetables for the winter were hard to come by. And that's Moscow. Most of the country could be summarized by a riddle - long, green, smells like sausages/groceries, what is it? An intercity train departing Moscow. The Soviet citizens wanted American lifestyle because Soviet lifestyle sucked. The only poor who might be worse off in the US are the completely dysfunctional ones like alcoholics or whatever. At least in the USSR it was hard to sell your flat and drink away the money. But, to me that's not even a tradeoff, it's an additional benefit.