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The Bleach Community Is Ready for RFK Jr. To Make Their Dreams Come True

37 points by Geekette 1y ago

Geekette 1y ago
Non-paywall: https://archive.ph/rK28d https://archive.ph/rK28d
bell-cot 1y ago
Once you have a large, dug-in community of people who neither believe nor trust the scientific mainstream on major public health issues - imagining that you can somehow turn the clock back to the Good Old Days is simply delusional.
- BrenBarn 1y ago
  I think, if not the Good Old Days, some Good New Days are possible. The tough part is it's going to require some sort of "hitting bottom" and a concomitant reevaluation of some of our baseline societal values. Like with regard to this bleach stuff, you would wind up with thousands of people jailed for child abuse and permanently barred from further contact with their children. On a larger scale, we need to recognize that if the first amendment says that saying "drinking bleach is a good idea" and "drinking bleach is a bad idea" have equal legal status, then we have a problem and need to rethink the first amendment. There needs to be sufficient willpower and fortitude to regard such things as live options.
  - bell-cot 1y ago
    Whether you phrase it "reevaluation of some of our baseline societal values", or "peacefully resolving the culture wars" - what it would take to actually accomplish makes the antivax, bleach, and similar problems look like rounding errors by compare. :(
    - BrenBarn 1y ago
      Yes and no. I see them as related because the anti-science and anti-fact stance is itself a component of the culture wars. But yeah, what I'm saying is it might not be entirely peaceful.
    - captainbland 1y ago
      As niche movements, yeah. But antivax and bleach treatments as federal policy (which is the threat RFK essentially represents) would have the potential to generate catastrophic results which would look a bit more than a rounding error.
reylas 1y ago
I am one to follow the science, but this seems a little like overreach. "Meta said it was reviewing the groups WIRED flagged and would remove any it determines violate". Is it the job of the reporter to flag groups covered in the story? Seems like a little bit of inserting itself into the news. Report and move on.
- alphabettsy 1y ago
  Couldn’t flagged simply mean they requested for comment about the group thus bringing it to their attention?
bargainbin 1y ago
> Chlorine dioxide is sold under a variety of names, including … God’s Detox. My biggest criticism of Darwinism is that it takes generations.
- captainbland 1y ago
  Unfortunately in this case very literally as many instances seem to be parents administering it to their children.
- rickydroll 1y ago
  not always... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/ "The excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters." Admittedly, a cherry-picked quote, but it's the salient point of how susceptibility to misinformation can shrink the current generation.
_zagj 1y ago
I was unaware there was a "bleach community." However, dilute sodium hypochlorite solutions have been used as anti-microbial rinses in dentistry for a while: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9292655/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9292655/
- EdwardDiego 1y ago
  I believe "rinse" is the key there.
  - delfinom 1y ago
    And also "dilute"
    - CaliforniaKarl 1y ago
      And even in a professional setting, there can be accidents. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24090808/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24090808/
      - _zagj 1y ago
        That's more like injecting it, rather than just rinsing, or even swallowing (not recommending) it.
        throw0101b 1y ago
        > That's more like injecting it, rather than just rinsing, or even swallowing (not recommending) it. Yeah: > US President Donald Trump has been lambasted by the medical community after suggesting research into whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body. […] > "And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued. > "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? > "So it'd be interesting to check that." * https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 Do not under-estimate the left-hand side of the bell curve.
perching_aix 1y ago
Definitely one of the more confusing headlines in a while, as an anime fan.
Bootvis 1y ago
I weep for the poor kids with parents in the "Bleach community".
captainbland 1y ago
Reading around this, it sounds like bleach has been peddled by some grifters to ignorant parents as something to give to their autistic children. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/moms-go-undercover-fight-fake-autism-cures-private-facebook-groups-n1007871 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/moms-go-undercover-fig... > Once they’re in, they take screenshots of posts from parents who describe giving these chemicals [bleach] to their children, often with disastrous results. > "My son is constantly making a gasping sound,” posted one Kansas mother who claimed to treat her adult son with chlorine dioxide, according to screenshots shared by Eaton and Seigler. “He won’t open his mouth,” a Canadian mom wrote of her 2-year-old’s unwillingness to drink the chlorine dioxide. “He screams. Spits. Flips over.” Unfortunately it sounds like this isn't limited to people self-administering bleach - instead it is nothing short of child abuse (and abuse of vulnerable adults where it's not...) in many cases.
fabian2k 1y ago
It's already clear that RFK Jr. will make a lot of unscientific and harmful changes. The new vaccine panel full of anti-vaccine activists, the whole autism study and messaging around that and the recent statement that they'll make drug approvals much faster by skipping animals and using AI instead. MMS is just another well-known pseudo-scientific cure for everything, and plenty of scammers earn money with that bullshit. These are all absolutely extreme ideas and will cause harm.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  He really is a symbol of just how broken American politics are.
lenerdenator 1y ago
A number of bleach treatments are ultimately child abuse.
array4277 1y ago
I thought this was about the anime. Now I'm disappointed.

37 points by Geekette 1y ago

Non-paywall: https://archive.ph/rK28d https://archive.ph/rK28d

Once you have a large, dug-in community of people who neither believe nor trust the scientific mainstream on major public health issues - imagining that you can somehow turn the clock back to the Good Old Days is simply delusional.

BrenBarn 1y ago
I think, if not the Good Old Days, some Good New Days are possible. The tough part is it's going to require some sort of "hitting bottom" and a concomitant reevaluation of some of our baseline societal values. Like with regard to this bleach stuff, you would wind up with thousands of people jailed for child abuse and permanently barred from further contact with their children. On a larger scale, we need to recognize that if the first amendment says that saying "drinking bleach is a good idea" and "drinking bleach is a bad idea" have equal legal status, then we have a problem and need to rethink the first amendment. There needs to be sufficient willpower and fortitude to regard such things as live options.
- bell-cot 1y ago
  Whether you phrase it "reevaluation of some of our baseline societal values", or "peacefully resolving the culture wars" - what it would take to actually accomplish makes the antivax, bleach, and similar problems look like rounding errors by compare. :(
  - BrenBarn 1y ago
    Yes and no. I see them as related because the anti-science and anti-fact stance is itself a component of the culture wars. But yeah, what I'm saying is it might not be entirely peaceful.
  - captainbland 1y ago
    As niche movements, yeah. But antivax and bleach treatments as federal policy (which is the threat RFK essentially represents) would have the potential to generate catastrophic results which would look a bit more than a rounding error.

reylas 1y ago

I am one to follow the science, but this seems a little like overreach. "Meta said it was reviewing the groups WIRED flagged and would remove any it determines violate". Is it the job of the reporter to flag groups covered in the story? Seems like a little bit of inserting itself into the news. Report and move on.

alphabettsy 1y ago
Couldn’t flagged simply mean they requested for comment about the group thus bringing it to their attention?

bargainbin 1y ago

> Chlorine dioxide is sold under a variety of names, including … God’s Detox. My biggest criticism of Darwinism is that it takes generations.

captainbland 1y ago
Unfortunately in this case very literally as many instances seem to be parents administering it to their children.
rickydroll 1y ago
not always... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/ "The excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters." Admittedly, a cherry-picked quote, but it's the salient point of how susceptibility to misinformation can shrink the current generation.

_zagj 1y ago

I was unaware there was a "bleach community." However, dilute sodium hypochlorite solutions have been used as anti-microbial rinses in dentistry for a while: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9292655/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9292655/

EdwardDiego 1y ago
I believe "rinse" is the key there.
- delfinom 1y ago
  And also "dilute"
  - CaliforniaKarl 1y ago
    And even in a professional setting, there can be accidents. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24090808/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24090808/
    - _zagj 1y ago
      That's more like injecting it, rather than just rinsing, or even swallowing (not recommending) it.
      - throw0101b 1y ago
        > That's more like injecting it, rather than just rinsing, or even swallowing (not recommending) it. Yeah: > US President Donald Trump has been lambasted by the medical community after suggesting research into whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body. […] > "And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued. > "And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? > "So it'd be interesting to check that." * https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177 Do not under-estimate the left-hand side of the bell curve.

perching_aix 1y ago

Definitely one of the more confusing headlines in a while, as an anime fan.

Bootvis 1y ago

I weep for the poor kids with parents in the "Bleach community".

captainbland 1y ago

Reading around this, it sounds like bleach has been peddled by some grifters to ignorant parents as something to give to their autistic children. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/moms-go-undercover-fight-fake-autism-cures-private-facebook-groups-n1007871 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/moms-go-undercover-fig... > Once they’re in, they take screenshots of posts from parents who describe giving these chemicals [bleach] to their children, often with disastrous results. > "My son is constantly making a gasping sound,” posted one Kansas mother who claimed to treat her adult son with chlorine dioxide, according to screenshots shared by Eaton and Seigler. “He won’t open his mouth,” a Canadian mom wrote of her 2-year-old’s unwillingness to drink the chlorine dioxide. “He screams. Spits. Flips over.” Unfortunately it sounds like this isn't limited to people self-administering bleach - instead it is nothing short of child abuse (and abuse of vulnerable adults where it's not...) in many cases.

fabian2k 1y ago

It's already clear that RFK Jr. will make a lot of unscientific and harmful changes. The new vaccine panel full of anti-vaccine activists, the whole autism study and messaging around that and the recent statement that they'll make drug approvals much faster by skipping animals and using AI instead. MMS is just another well-known pseudo-scientific cure for everything, and plenty of scammers earn money with that bullshit. These are all absolutely extreme ideas and will cause harm.

lenerdenator 1y ago
He really is a symbol of just how broken American politics are.

lenerdenator 1y ago

A number of bleach treatments are ultimately child abuse.

array4277 1y ago

I thought this was about the anime. Now I'm disappointed.