4 ms·

I just don't think it's going to be good for humanity if US ceases to be a democracy. Sure, scientists probably don't have to be on the forefront of the struggl

by oytis 1y ago

I just don't think it's going to be good for humanity if US ceases to be a democracy. Sure, scientists probably don't have to be on the forefront of the struggle, and I understand those who decide to leave but saying that there is no other choice as to leave - or even that that is the most moral choice - is wrong in my opinion. US has long taken freedom for granted, but there are many countries in the world where civil societies have fought against much more brutal regime than Trump tries to install, had very little reasons for hope - and still won. It's kind of an important topic to me - I myself left Russia for good, but not when Putin's regime has started, but rather when it has become so entrenched that there was indeed no hope left. At the same time I've always looked with awe at nations that made it, most of all Ukraine - and sincerely hope that Americans won't give up easily now.

saubeidl 1y ago
Yeah, I fully agree, it'll be awful for everybody if the US goes full on rogue state. But I also believe the best thing left for us to do is to build up the remaining free world to a point where it can convincingly deter aggression by authoritarian states including the US. I feel like once you're at the "masked men disappear unwanteds to Gulags without due process" stage, it's hard to come back.
- oytis 1y ago
  I don't want to downplay it, but even if US literally had masked men disappear American citizens without trace, that would be... well, just a dictatorship - many of them were overcome when society picked up the fight.
epistasis 1y ago
I think we are very kindred spirits. If you have thoughts on what to do, please share because I'm desperate to find out. I think that US culture is far closer to Russia or Belarus in culture these days than Ukraine. The Ukrainians I know all said "why aren't the Americans all out in the streets" when Trump started doing all these things. Because that's what Ukrainians do when there's injustice. In the US, those who resist feel defeated already, because of the reelection of somebody who was clearly criminal and has no respect for democracy, and there's very little leadership on pushing back. I think the energy may come back, we in the US may find our strength again. But the information environment is so poisoned that I fear only violence will finally break through to the poisoned minds, and I really really don't want it to come to that. Maidan happened in Ukraine because the general populace said "we won't tolerate the government beating students doing protests." In the US, we've become quite tolerant of that, and even of the masked police. I want to stay and fight, but I don't know how. I don't know if anybody knows how. Eastern Europe is about 10-20 years ahead of where the US is in terms of government evolution, because the fall of the USSR caused a speed-run through.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  There's a shimmer of hope right now with Mamdani in New York. It could be the start of a legitimate nationwide movement. Establishment Dems are complicit.

by oytis 1y ago

saubeidl 1y ago

Yeah, I fully agree, it'll be awful for everybody if the US goes full on rogue state. But I also believe the best thing left for us to do is to build up the remaining free world to a point where it can convincingly deter aggression by authoritarian states including the US. I feel like once you're at the "masked men disappear unwanteds to Gulags without due process" stage, it's hard to come back.

oytis 1y ago
I don't want to downplay it, but even if US literally had masked men disappear American citizens without trace, that would be... well, just a dictatorship - many of them were overcome when society picked up the fight.

epistasis 1y ago

I think we are very kindred spirits. If you have thoughts on what to do, please share because I'm desperate to find out. I think that US culture is far closer to Russia or Belarus in culture these days than Ukraine. The Ukrainians I know all said "why aren't the Americans all out in the streets" when Trump started doing all these things. Because that's what Ukrainians do when there's injustice. In the US, those who resist feel defeated already, because of the reelection of somebody who was clearly criminal and has no respect for democracy, and there's very little leadership on pushing back. I think the energy may come back, we in the US may find our strength again. But the information environment is so poisoned that I fear only violence will finally break through to the poisoned minds, and I really really don't want it to come to that. Maidan happened in Ukraine because the general populace said "we won't tolerate the government beating students doing protests." In the US, we've become quite tolerant of that, and even of the masked police. I want to stay and fight, but I don't know how. I don't know if anybody knows how. Eastern Europe is about 10-20 years ahead of where the US is in terms of government evolution, because the fall of the USSR caused a speed-run through.

saubeidl 1y ago
There's a shimmer of hope right now with Mamdani in New York. It could be the start of a legitimate nationwide movement. Establishment Dems are complicit.