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Another win for exercising. It's crazy to me how many people have miserable health, complain about their body and mental state endlessly, but still put up any

Another win for exercising. It's crazy to me how many people have miserable health, complain about their body and mental state endlessly, but still put up any roadblock they can think of to avoid exercising of any form.

kccqzy 1y ago
It's bad habits from a younger age. I remember in my 20s, I didn't need to exercise at all and yet my body felt perfect. And so was my mental health. It was after several years of sedentary lifestyle that it clicked for me that my health was declining and exercise was needed to restore it. I suspect this could be the case for many: you don't need exercise and your body remains in a tip top shape when you are young.
- ed 1y ago
  Remember you probably were exercising until about 18, since it’s required by most schools.
  - balfirevic 1y ago
    "Physical education" would be hilarious if it weren't sad. It's a pretty impressive feat that it managed to simultaneously: - make me spend quite a lot of time on something exercise-related (since it was "opposite shift" of regular school classes) - had me do next to zero actual exercise - teach me literally nothing about how exercise or training works - make me hate everything related to exercise for quite a few years Worse than a waste of time, it was actively harmful.
  - madmask 1y ago
    That’s almost nothing. 1 hour a week, at least in Italy, and mostly sports stuff close to cardio no weight training. I feel good with at least 4 hours a week of bodyweight training plus some cardio.
omnicognate 1y ago
I have chronic fatigue problems, which exercise exacerbates. I swim 3 times a week, but have to carefully regulate the intensity or it triggers post-exertional malaise. The exercise is important for my general health but it isn't positively correlated with my cognitive functioning. Quite the opposite.
- jassyr 1y ago
  I'm in a similar situation but with multiple sclerosis for over 15 years. I love to exercise, however on some days a medium-intensity cardio session will leave my brain functioning at like 50% which is not great for my job. I gotta work hard to make sure my gas tank has enough for all the tasks planned for that day. My neurologist calls it Energy Management.
  - spacemadness 1y ago
    Wow that sounds tough to deal with. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.
  - diamondage 1y ago
    Tried creatine?
    - jassyr 1y ago
      Creatine does help some. Staying hydrated and good sleep, too.
- its_down_again 1y ago
  I used to have plenty of energy running 40-50miles per week, but when I ramped up to 80mpw I started nodding off in my chair by 1 PM. Then despite the higher mileage and more intense training, my race times slipped. My half went from 1:23 to 1:28, and I felt drained, irritable and angry unless I took a long break. After digging in, I learned that very high mileage can deplete iron levels. Once I focused on improving my iron absorption, I finally got my energy back and everything clicked. Even while holding 80+ mpw for the upcoming SF Marathon, I still knocked 5% off my Bay to Breakers time (48:51 this year) and cut my 5K PR from 19:17 to 18:37.
taeric 1y ago
I think the big road block for many people is that exercise itself also hurts? I know that is a hurdle I have with my kids. They complain that jogging/running hurts. It is hard to convince people that that never really changes, and that it also hurts for the people that are doing it every day. Obviously acute pains are a different thing, but there is a reason recovery is a vital part of exercise. We all have to recover from pushing limits. You can't expand your limits without pushing, though.
- gavinray 1y ago
  You have to find some sort of exercise/movement that you both enjoy (or at least, don't hate), and doesn't cause you physical discomfort. Otherwise, you'll never stick with it. I hate jogging, I have forced myself to do daily jogging for several month periods, but I never stick with it. For me, incline treadmill at maximum incline and a moderate pace gets my heart-rate up and doesn't feel nearly as awful.
  - taeric 1y ago
    My trick was to find a way to obligate myself to finish. Biking to work was a huge win for my fitness. Even on days I didn't really want to bike a few more miles at the end of the day, I still had to get home. For my kids, I'm trying to convince them that a lot of the things they find uncomfortable are things they just aren't used to. Ergonomics have fooled a lot people into thinking "feels right" is the initial state of something, I think? You still have to train yourself to get used to a lot of things.
- IncreasePosts 1y ago
  Jogging is for adults...if they're kids they'd be far better served by playing sports or something. You'll run a mile or two in a soccer or frisbee game without even trying, it will be fun, and you'll socialize
  - taeric 1y ago
    Fair, "kids" is including high schoolers that were considering cross country running classes. :D
gavinray 1y ago
It's amazing what <any form of daily movement> + a diet of "real"/non-processed foods will do for your health.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > non-processed foods Do you really not eat bread? We've got to come up with better ways to categorize foods. At face value such a term seems to imply you should only eat raw food.
  - pphysch 1y ago
    I do avoid eating (highly processed white) bread in most meals, because it doesn't make me feel great. We're really targeting "highly-processed" foods. Personally I draw a line between sausage that went through something resembling a hand-powered meat grinder vs. sausage that has been obliterated into a fine pink sludge and reformed. Both are processed, but the latter is highly processed, with more room for additives.
    - MangoToupe 1y ago
      The issue with sausage isn't the processing, it's the preservatives and the choice of meats (and their corresponding nutrients) that go into the sausage. My understanding is that degree of "processing" is acknowledged to be an imperfect metric, just one that fits easily with EU labeling concerns. I just don't think that's as useful as is advertised.
  - righthand 1y ago
    It is not difficult to make your own bread as well, so easily avoided eating non-processed bread.
    - MangoToupe 1y ago
      > so easily avoided eating non-processed bread. How do you make bread without flour? Flour is a processed food.
random3 1y ago
Yeah, even crazier - some chose to be in mental institutions instead of their homes
mdaverde 1y ago
The answer to miserable health isn't exercise. It's high quality sleep.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  It's not a dichotomy, both is good. I find my sleep and appetite improving with exercise, too; sleep can improve with physical tiredness on top of mental.
  - hirvi74 1y ago
    It's a shame how strong the reinforcement loops are. It's hard to sleep well without good exercise, and it's hard to exercise well without good sleep.
- majkinetor 1y ago
  The more you age, the more you need regular sleep, it seems. Its basically the only thing that I can't fix nowadays any other way but going to bed. Modafinil can help for a couple of days but that's it.
majkinetor 1y ago
And yet, nobody mentions how supplements can't generally damage you, but a few days in a gym can fuck you up for an entire year, even with a lot of experience. I basically never met anybody who does regular resistance training without having some sort of pain somewhere, all the time. Maybe if you are underdoing it its possible but if you follow the muscle building theory, you are certainly going to get fucked eventually. Even the slightest position issue can make your tendons hurt for months... No wonder all athletes are on BPC 157, TB 500 and friends... I talked to exercise professors and random people alike, and they all tell the same story. Professor said that I should get used to pain. Too bad exercise seems to be a must after you are 50+ and no amount of good nutrition and vitamin megadosing will suffice for optimal health and particularly insuline resistance. Prior to that age though, you can get away without it.
- echelon 1y ago
  > I basically never met anybody who does regular resistance training without having some sort of pain somewhere, all the time. That kind of pain quickly subsides after relaxing your routine though. It's not chronic. The inflammation pathways aren't the same as disease state pathways.
  - majkinetor 1y ago
    That is simply not true. Any tendon/ligament issue will take at least 6 months.
    - echelon 1y ago
      This isn't an all or nothing. Not everyone is damaging their body.
- jonnybgood 1y ago
  As one of those random persons who has been weightlifting for 10+ years and is currently in their late 30s, I look great and I feel great. Yes, there is pain because you’re breaking down muscle fibers which repair and become stronger. Lots of people experience delayed onset muscle soreness, which is temporary. Some people don’t learn how to do things correctly and don’t listen to their body so they injure themselves. What is the muscle building theory? Not everyone who does weightlifting is aiming for hypertrophy. Some are aiming for strength. Honestly, it sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself not to do it. That’s okay. It’s difficult to know where to begin and avoid potential injury. It does take some time to learn. I like to recommend starting with a functional training class. This kind of class provides a guided session in building strength in everyday movements and provides a steady pace to really tune in to your body. It’s very difficult to injure yourself.
mentos 1y ago
I’ve been experimenting with making my last meal of the day as far from my sleep as possible ideally waking up at 5am, drinking water / vitamins, exercising by lifting my dumb bells in my studio apartment, eating a 1k calorie breakfast and 1k calorie lunch and done with eating by ~1-2 so I have 4-6 hours to digest before bed Best sleep I’ve ever gotten. You don’t know what you’re missing out on until you’ve experienced not good but GREAT sleep. if that’s too extreme avoid too much water before bed if you’re getting up to pee you are ruining your sleep
- taeric 1y ago
  Meanwhile, I'm finding some of my best sleep in a while by having an espresso before bed. :D
- WesleyLivesay 1y ago
  On the flip side, I get absolutely garbage sleep if I don't eat within about 1-2 hours of going to sleep.
  - kalkaran 1y ago
    Same - I also read a study saying 22% muscle synthesis increase with 40 grams of casein before bed and one saying protein before bed improved sleep quality.
    - entropicdrifter 1y ago
      So a bedtime glass of milk and small bowl of soybeans is a good move?
      - kalkaran 1y ago
        Yes - unless you have to wake up to pee I guess. Casein is one of the slowest absorbed proteins so it releases over 6 hours in most cases. I think soy beans is probably the same since its mixed in with fiber. If you compare it to whey isolate thats absorbed after 1. This doesn’t have the same effect.
BMc2020 1y ago
What I want is a pill that makes me exercise.
- simoncion 1y ago
  I unironically offer the opinion that the pill that you're looking for is amphetamines.
  - butlike 1y ago
    Terrible advice. The muscles need blood (nutrients), and you're going to take something that vasoconstricts? You're then going to couple that with an increased heart rate? I unironically offer the opinion that half a teaspoon of creatine is a much better alternative.
    - simoncion 1y ago
      > Terrible advice. The muscles need blood (nutrients), and you're going to take something that vasoconstricts? ADHD patients seem to be able to exercise just fine (and -importantly- don't seem to be suffering widespread muscle death) when on Adderall and similar. I bet folks like that are pretty glad that the body is a complex, robust system that does reasonably well in a fairly wide range of internal and external environments.
      - DontchaKnowit 1y ago
        I honestly do not believe hardly any of the studies about adderall. I am an adhd patient and playing tennis on amphetamines once spiked my heart rate above 200. Not good. Also vasoconstrictors + valsalva technique for lifting heavy weights = anuerysm risk. So, respectifully to the studies, im calling bullshit.
    - Ifkaluva 1y ago
      Caffeine is also a vasoconstrictor, and included in large amounts in most pre-workouts.
  - 1y ago
PaulHoule 1y ago
People w/ fibromyalgia don't seem to benefit from exercise the way others do. For normal people, exercise does some tissue damage but it grows back stronger. People with fibro get the damage but they don't get the regrowth. So a bit of "overdoing it" that I might mostly bounce back from in a few days could have one of my wife's friends down for six weeks.
MangoToupe 1y ago
>It's crazy to me how many people have miserable health, complain about their body and mental state endlessly, but still put up any roadblock they can think of to avoid exercising of any form. I don't think it's that weird. Exercising, particularly cardio, for its own sake, without something you're trying to accomplish with your effort, feels very bad.
- pphysch 1y ago
  "Not exercising" also feels very bad, just on a different time scale.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    A time scale that the human brain is terrible at recognizing or adapting to or internalizing. Our reward hardware doesn't work well for exercising because it wasn't needed for exercising. You either did physical activity or you starved to death.
- reducesuffering 1y ago
  Humans are evolutionarily adapted to running. Yes, going from a modern sedentary lifestyle to running will feel rough for a few months as you acclimate (and most people don't start off at the slow 11 min. / mile [7 min. / km] pace they should). But there's a reason marathons are so popular, running and exercise starts to feel really good.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    > Yes, going from a modern sedentary lifestyle to running will feel rough for a few months as you acclimate Right. Which is why people don't exercise. That's a lot to ask of people with other things on their plate. To be clear, I know I should exercise. I just find it very difficult to do so, and it's very easy to convince yourself you should do something else with that energy. I think team sports are probably the best way to get into exercise. This allows tying the benefit directly into a reward system. I ran long-distance in high school and, without teammates to let down, it was very difficult to push myself beyond the bare minimum effort. Most of us don't have the ability to summon a team sport into our work schedule though.

kccqzy 1y ago

It's bad habits from a younger age. I remember in my 20s, I didn't need to exercise at all and yet my body felt perfect. And so was my mental health. It was after several years of sedentary lifestyle that it clicked for me that my health was declining and exercise was needed to restore it. I suspect this could be the case for many: you don't need exercise and your body remains in a tip top shape when you are young.

ed 1y ago
Remember you probably were exercising until about 18, since it’s required by most schools.
- balfirevic 1y ago
  "Physical education" would be hilarious if it weren't sad. It's a pretty impressive feat that it managed to simultaneously: - make me spend quite a lot of time on something exercise-related (since it was "opposite shift" of regular school classes) - had me do next to zero actual exercise - teach me literally nothing about how exercise or training works - make me hate everything related to exercise for quite a few years Worse than a waste of time, it was actively harmful.
- madmask 1y ago
  That’s almost nothing. 1 hour a week, at least in Italy, and mostly sports stuff close to cardio no weight training. I feel good with at least 4 hours a week of bodyweight training plus some cardio.

omnicognate 1y ago

I have chronic fatigue problems, which exercise exacerbates. I swim 3 times a week, but have to carefully regulate the intensity or it triggers post-exertional malaise. The exercise is important for my general health but it isn't positively correlated with my cognitive functioning. Quite the opposite.

jassyr 1y ago
I'm in a similar situation but with multiple sclerosis for over 15 years. I love to exercise, however on some days a medium-intensity cardio session will leave my brain functioning at like 50% which is not great for my job. I gotta work hard to make sure my gas tank has enough for all the tasks planned for that day. My neurologist calls it Energy Management.
- spacemadness 1y ago
  Wow that sounds tough to deal with. I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.
- diamondage 1y ago
  Tried creatine?
  - jassyr 1y ago
    Creatine does help some. Staying hydrated and good sleep, too.
its_down_again 1y ago
I used to have plenty of energy running 40-50miles per week, but when I ramped up to 80mpw I started nodding off in my chair by 1 PM. Then despite the higher mileage and more intense training, my race times slipped. My half went from 1:23 to 1:28, and I felt drained, irritable and angry unless I took a long break. After digging in, I learned that very high mileage can deplete iron levels. Once I focused on improving my iron absorption, I finally got my energy back and everything clicked. Even while holding 80+ mpw for the upcoming SF Marathon, I still knocked 5% off my Bay to Breakers time (48:51 this year) and cut my 5K PR from 19:17 to 18:37.

taeric 1y ago

I think the big road block for many people is that exercise itself also hurts? I know that is a hurdle I have with my kids. They complain that jogging/running hurts. It is hard to convince people that that never really changes, and that it also hurts for the people that are doing it every day. Obviously acute pains are a different thing, but there is a reason recovery is a vital part of exercise. We all have to recover from pushing limits. You can't expand your limits without pushing, though.

gavinray 1y ago
You have to find some sort of exercise/movement that you both enjoy (or at least, don't hate), and doesn't cause you physical discomfort. Otherwise, you'll never stick with it. I hate jogging, I have forced myself to do daily jogging for several month periods, but I never stick with it. For me, incline treadmill at maximum incline and a moderate pace gets my heart-rate up and doesn't feel nearly as awful.
- taeric 1y ago
  My trick was to find a way to obligate myself to finish. Biking to work was a huge win for my fitness. Even on days I didn't really want to bike a few more miles at the end of the day, I still had to get home. For my kids, I'm trying to convince them that a lot of the things they find uncomfortable are things they just aren't used to. Ergonomics have fooled a lot people into thinking "feels right" is the initial state of something, I think? You still have to train yourself to get used to a lot of things.
IncreasePosts 1y ago
Jogging is for adults...if they're kids they'd be far better served by playing sports or something. You'll run a mile or two in a soccer or frisbee game without even trying, it will be fun, and you'll socialize
- taeric 1y ago
  Fair, "kids" is including high schoolers that were considering cross country running classes. :D

gavinray 1y ago

It's amazing what <any form of daily movement> + a diet of "real"/non-processed foods will do for your health.

MangoToupe 1y ago
> non-processed foods Do you really not eat bread? We've got to come up with better ways to categorize foods. At face value such a term seems to imply you should only eat raw food.
- pphysch 1y ago
  I do avoid eating (highly processed white) bread in most meals, because it doesn't make me feel great. We're really targeting "highly-processed" foods. Personally I draw a line between sausage that went through something resembling a hand-powered meat grinder vs. sausage that has been obliterated into a fine pink sludge and reformed. Both are processed, but the latter is highly processed, with more room for additives.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    The issue with sausage isn't the processing, it's the preservatives and the choice of meats (and their corresponding nutrients) that go into the sausage. My understanding is that degree of "processing" is acknowledged to be an imperfect metric, just one that fits easily with EU labeling concerns. I just don't think that's as useful as is advertised.
- righthand 1y ago
  It is not difficult to make your own bread as well, so easily avoided eating non-processed bread.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    > so easily avoided eating non-processed bread. How do you make bread without flour? Flour is a processed food.

random3 1y ago

Yeah, even crazier - some chose to be in mental institutions instead of their homes

mdaverde 1y ago

The answer to miserable health isn't exercise. It's high quality sleep.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago
It's not a dichotomy, both is good. I find my sleep and appetite improving with exercise, too; sleep can improve with physical tiredness on top of mental.
- hirvi74 1y ago
  It's a shame how strong the reinforcement loops are. It's hard to sleep well without good exercise, and it's hard to exercise well without good sleep.
majkinetor 1y ago
The more you age, the more you need regular sleep, it seems. Its basically the only thing that I can't fix nowadays any other way but going to bed. Modafinil can help for a couple of days but that's it.

majkinetor 1y ago

And yet, nobody mentions how supplements can't generally damage you, but a few days in a gym can fuck you up for an entire year, even with a lot of experience. I basically never met anybody who does regular resistance training without having some sort of pain somewhere, all the time. Maybe if you are underdoing it its possible but if you follow the muscle building theory, you are certainly going to get fucked eventually. Even the slightest position issue can make your tendons hurt for months... No wonder all athletes are on BPC 157, TB 500 and friends... I talked to exercise professors and random people alike, and they all tell the same story. Professor said that I should get used to pain. Too bad exercise seems to be a must after you are 50+ and no amount of good nutrition and vitamin megadosing will suffice for optimal health and particularly insuline resistance. Prior to that age though, you can get away without it.

echelon 1y ago
> I basically never met anybody who does regular resistance training without having some sort of pain somewhere, all the time. That kind of pain quickly subsides after relaxing your routine though. It's not chronic. The inflammation pathways aren't the same as disease state pathways.
- majkinetor 1y ago
  That is simply not true. Any tendon/ligament issue will take at least 6 months.
  - echelon 1y ago
    This isn't an all or nothing. Not everyone is damaging their body.
jonnybgood 1y ago
As one of those random persons who has been weightlifting for 10+ years and is currently in their late 30s, I look great and I feel great. Yes, there is pain because you’re breaking down muscle fibers which repair and become stronger. Lots of people experience delayed onset muscle soreness, which is temporary. Some people don’t learn how to do things correctly and don’t listen to their body so they injure themselves. What is the muscle building theory? Not everyone who does weightlifting is aiming for hypertrophy. Some are aiming for strength. Honestly, it sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself not to do it. That’s okay. It’s difficult to know where to begin and avoid potential injury. It does take some time to learn. I like to recommend starting with a functional training class. This kind of class provides a guided session in building strength in everyday movements and provides a steady pace to really tune in to your body. It’s very difficult to injure yourself.

mentos 1y ago

I’ve been experimenting with making my last meal of the day as far from my sleep as possible ideally waking up at 5am, drinking water / vitamins, exercising by lifting my dumb bells in my studio apartment, eating a 1k calorie breakfast and 1k calorie lunch and done with eating by ~1-2 so I have 4-6 hours to digest before bed Best sleep I’ve ever gotten. You don’t know what you’re missing out on until you’ve experienced not good but GREAT sleep. if that’s too extreme avoid too much water before bed if you’re getting up to pee you are ruining your sleep

taeric 1y ago
Meanwhile, I'm finding some of my best sleep in a while by having an espresso before bed. :D
WesleyLivesay 1y ago
On the flip side, I get absolutely garbage sleep if I don't eat within about 1-2 hours of going to sleep.
- kalkaran 1y ago
  Same - I also read a study saying 22% muscle synthesis increase with 40 grams of casein before bed and one saying protein before bed improved sleep quality.
  - entropicdrifter 1y ago
    So a bedtime glass of milk and small bowl of soybeans is a good move?
    - kalkaran 1y ago
      Yes - unless you have to wake up to pee I guess. Casein is one of the slowest absorbed proteins so it releases over 6 hours in most cases. I think soy beans is probably the same since its mixed in with fiber. If you compare it to whey isolate thats absorbed after 1. This doesn’t have the same effect.

BMc2020 1y ago

What I want is a pill that makes me exercise.

simoncion 1y ago
I unironically offer the opinion that the pill that you're looking for is amphetamines.
- butlike 1y ago
  Terrible advice. The muscles need blood (nutrients), and you're going to take something that vasoconstricts? You're then going to couple that with an increased heart rate? I unironically offer the opinion that half a teaspoon of creatine is a much better alternative.
  - simoncion 1y ago
    > Terrible advice. The muscles need blood (nutrients), and you're going to take something that vasoconstricts? ADHD patients seem to be able to exercise just fine (and -importantly- don't seem to be suffering widespread muscle death) when on Adderall and similar. I bet folks like that are pretty glad that the body is a complex, robust system that does reasonably well in a fairly wide range of internal and external environments.
    - DontchaKnowit 1y ago
      I honestly do not believe hardly any of the studies about adderall. I am an adhd patient and playing tennis on amphetamines once spiked my heart rate above 200. Not good. Also vasoconstrictors + valsalva technique for lifting heavy weights = anuerysm risk. So, respectifully to the studies, im calling bullshit.
  - Ifkaluva 1y ago
    Caffeine is also a vasoconstrictor, and included in large amounts in most pre-workouts.
- 1y ago

PaulHoule 1y ago

People w/ fibromyalgia don't seem to benefit from exercise the way others do. For normal people, exercise does some tissue damage but it grows back stronger. People with fibro get the damage but they don't get the regrowth. So a bit of "overdoing it" that I might mostly bounce back from in a few days could have one of my wife's friends down for six weeks.

MangoToupe 1y ago

>It's crazy to me how many people have miserable health, complain about their body and mental state endlessly, but still put up any roadblock they can think of to avoid exercising of any form. I don't think it's that weird. Exercising, particularly cardio, for its own sake, without something you're trying to accomplish with your effort, feels very bad.

pphysch 1y ago
"Not exercising" also feels very bad, just on a different time scale.
- mrguyorama 1y ago
  A time scale that the human brain is terrible at recognizing or adapting to or internalizing. Our reward hardware doesn't work well for exercising because it wasn't needed for exercising. You either did physical activity or you starved to death.
reducesuffering 1y ago
Humans are evolutionarily adapted to running. Yes, going from a modern sedentary lifestyle to running will feel rough for a few months as you acclimate (and most people don't start off at the slow 11 min. / mile [7 min. / km] pace they should). But there's a reason marathons are so popular, running and exercise starts to feel really good.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > Yes, going from a modern sedentary lifestyle to running will feel rough for a few months as you acclimate Right. Which is why people don't exercise. That's a lot to ask of people with other things on their plate. To be clear, I know I should exercise. I just find it very difficult to do so, and it's very easy to convince yourself you should do something else with that energy. I think team sports are probably the best way to get into exercise. This allows tying the benefit directly into a reward system. I ran long-distance in high school and, without teammates to let down, it was very difficult to push myself beyond the bare minimum effort. Most of us don't have the ability to summon a team sport into our work schedule though.