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> but otherwise I am happy with it, and want other car manufacturers to take note of the vertical technological integration possible when they put their minds

> but otherwise I am happy with it, and want other car manufacturers to take note of the vertical technological integration possible when they put their minds to it Can you make practical examples of this vertical technological integration?

bryanlarsen 1y ago
(responding to earlier version of comment referencing China). Note that Tesla learned a lot of their vertical integration and manufacturing expertise from the Chinese. Their first factory in Fremont produced low quality product at a high price. Then they built a factory in China using a lot of local expertise which produced a much higher quality product much cheaper. Their German factory is a clone of the Chinese factory. Reports are that Ford is in panic mode after analyzing the quality and performance of recent Chinese cars. If other companies are similar perhaps positive changes will be made in at least some of them.
gortok 1y ago
Let me start with the App. The Tesla App allows me to lock, unlock the car, pop and close the trunk, check the cameras, schedule it to warm itself up, input destinations, see its real-time location, and see charging issues. The app isn't clunky to use. It's wonderful, and it's really well made. The car's infotainment system is vertically integrated; all of the features are available in one common interface and work well with one another. The car will automatically turn down the fans when I'm on a call, as just one example. The cameras turn on and show me the blind spots when I'm changing lanes (my only complaint there is that the side-view mirrors do not physically allow me to position them as recommended by NHTSA). The integrated maps also include charging station availability; and the maps automatically update (I don't need to buy an SD Card from a manufacturer with the updated maps). The software team is able to push updates to my car; so if there are bugs with their bluetooth, it gets fixed without me having to go to the dealership and hoping they care enough about their technology stack to fix it. If there are bugs, they get fixed; and since they're not dealing with different third-party modules, they own the entire stack that is in the car. My only complaints are that I can't use Waze on my Tesla, which shows where cops are, and sometimes their navigation routes are wonky and aren't practical (like driving through the middle of DC to avoid going around the beltway), but otherwise the technical experience of owning and operating a tesla an using their infotainment system is lightyears ahead of any other car I've driven. Contra that with the Volkswagen I just rented where its Carplay crashed and crashed the whole infotainment system; or the bug where its rearview camera stayed on until I manually closed it when I shifted into drive;
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  I'll start this by saying that while I don't agree with all the UX decisions Tesla has made, the UI of their interface and app is certainly extremely polished. But (and I'll note you didn't claim this specifically) a lot of these are things others do. My Audi app lets me lock and unlock the car, check fuel level/range and oil, need for service, see its location, etc. Cameras with indicator usage is across multiple manufacturers. I do not need to buy map updates, they come over cellular. As do software updates. I realize that software is a different beast, but if you're comparing VW based on a rental, then the Teslas I've rented at times were garbage, too. Poor sealing so the cabins whistled at freeway speeds, non-updated software that played havoc with the cars world view, showing cars and trucks around me constantly vanishing and reappearing, phantom vehicles. Not to mention a plethora of "sensor/camera/etc blocked" even though the vehicle was clean.
- justinrubek 1y ago
  I can't really agree with the app. Yes, it isn't bad. Wonderful and well made? Not so much. I see this as more of a testament to how bad the rest of the industry is. And I say this as someone who thinks this vehicle sets the baseline standard for a good vehicle experience.
- hellotomyrars 1y ago
  These aren't unique to Tesla, though a lot of manufacturers want you to pay to have a lot of that stuff in their app, which is fucked. I also want less touch controls and less entirely featureless controls. My car is a 2012 Mini Countryman (no screens other than dot matrix displays) and I was on a roof at a work site and threw my keys down to another guy to move it, He described it as being like `in a spaceship`. Which really tickled me because he had a 2024 mustang with big touch screens in it. I guess mine was like a spaceship to him because of all the physical controls and toggle switches. My parents have a 2021 Hyundai Santa Cruz (First model year!) and the design is baffling to me. The AC controls are on a capacitive touch display below the main one so you have no idea what you're doing unless you're looking at it. There are also multiple controls with almost no tactile feel at the base of the drive select lever and seat climate controls mounted to the front of the center divider that just a few raised bumps on would go a long way to helping quickly identify them while pawing around there to turn the seat heat/cool. The infotainment does OTA but the maps updates require using a USB drive. You can do it at home though it is an incredibly clunky and antiquated process. To be perfectly honest the only things about the Santa Cruz that I wish my car had as far as the electronics go is blind spot/camera feeds and modern media support (carplay). Other than that I strongly prefer my incredibly aged dash. My front and center is just a tachometer with a small dot matrix display that shows the current speed digitally with one more below that for a couple other things (I leave it on real-time fuel consumption.) That is it. I'd rather use my phone for maps (Standalone or via carplay) over anything built in to any vehicle I've ever driven.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

(responding to earlier version of comment referencing China). Note that Tesla learned a lot of their vertical integration and manufacturing expertise from the Chinese. Their first factory in Fremont produced low quality product at a high price. Then they built a factory in China using a lot of local expertise which produced a much higher quality product much cheaper. Their German factory is a clone of the Chinese factory. Reports are that Ford is in panic mode after analyzing the quality and performance of recent Chinese cars. If other companies are similar perhaps positive changes will be made in at least some of them.

gortok 1y ago

Let me start with the App. The Tesla App allows me to lock, unlock the car, pop and close the trunk, check the cameras, schedule it to warm itself up, input destinations, see its real-time location, and see charging issues. The app isn't clunky to use. It's wonderful, and it's really well made. The car's infotainment system is vertically integrated; all of the features are available in one common interface and work well with one another. The car will automatically turn down the fans when I'm on a call, as just one example. The cameras turn on and show me the blind spots when I'm changing lanes (my only complaint there is that the side-view mirrors do not physically allow me to position them as recommended by NHTSA). The integrated maps also include charging station availability; and the maps automatically update (I don't need to buy an SD Card from a manufacturer with the updated maps). The software team is able to push updates to my car; so if there are bugs with their bluetooth, it gets fixed without me having to go to the dealership and hoping they care enough about their technology stack to fix it. If there are bugs, they get fixed; and since they're not dealing with different third-party modules, they own the entire stack that is in the car. My only complaints are that I can't use Waze on my Tesla, which shows where cops are, and sometimes their navigation routes are wonky and aren't practical (like driving through the middle of DC to avoid going around the beltway), but otherwise the technical experience of owning and operating a tesla an using their infotainment system is lightyears ahead of any other car I've driven. Contra that with the Volkswagen I just rented where its Carplay crashed and crashed the whole infotainment system; or the bug where its rearview camera stayed on until I manually closed it when I shifted into drive;

FireBeyond 1y ago
I'll start this by saying that while I don't agree with all the UX decisions Tesla has made, the UI of their interface and app is certainly extremely polished. But (and I'll note you didn't claim this specifically) a lot of these are things others do. My Audi app lets me lock and unlock the car, check fuel level/range and oil, need for service, see its location, etc. Cameras with indicator usage is across multiple manufacturers. I do not need to buy map updates, they come over cellular. As do software updates. I realize that software is a different beast, but if you're comparing VW based on a rental, then the Teslas I've rented at times were garbage, too. Poor sealing so the cabins whistled at freeway speeds, non-updated software that played havoc with the cars world view, showing cars and trucks around me constantly vanishing and reappearing, phantom vehicles. Not to mention a plethora of "sensor/camera/etc blocked" even though the vehicle was clean.
justinrubek 1y ago
I can't really agree with the app. Yes, it isn't bad. Wonderful and well made? Not so much. I see this as more of a testament to how bad the rest of the industry is. And I say this as someone who thinks this vehicle sets the baseline standard for a good vehicle experience.
hellotomyrars 1y ago
These aren't unique to Tesla, though a lot of manufacturers want you to pay to have a lot of that stuff in their app, which is fucked. I also want less touch controls and less entirely featureless controls. My car is a 2012 Mini Countryman (no screens other than dot matrix displays) and I was on a roof at a work site and threw my keys down to another guy to move it, He described it as being like `in a spaceship`. Which really tickled me because he had a 2024 mustang with big touch screens in it. I guess mine was like a spaceship to him because of all the physical controls and toggle switches. My parents have a 2021 Hyundai Santa Cruz (First model year!) and the design is baffling to me. The AC controls are on a capacitive touch display below the main one so you have no idea what you're doing unless you're looking at it. There are also multiple controls with almost no tactile feel at the base of the drive select lever and seat climate controls mounted to the front of the center divider that just a few raised bumps on would go a long way to helping quickly identify them while pawing around there to turn the seat heat/cool. The infotainment does OTA but the maps updates require using a USB drive. You can do it at home though it is an incredibly clunky and antiquated process. To be perfectly honest the only things about the Santa Cruz that I wish my car had as far as the electronics go is blind spot/camera feeds and modern media support (carplay). Other than that I strongly prefer my incredibly aged dash. My front and center is just a tachometer with a small dot matrix display that shows the current speed digitally with one more below that for a couple other things (I leave it on real-time fuel consumption.) That is it. I'd rather use my phone for maps (Standalone or via carplay) over anything built in to any vehicle I've ever driven.