7 ms·

As someone who dislikes Musk's seemingly oblivious approach to "Move fast and break things" in government when real lives are at stake and expertise is not easy

by gortok 1y ago

As someone who dislikes Musk's seemingly oblivious approach to "Move fast and break things" in government when real lives are at stake and expertise is not easy to come by, I really want this drop to be attributable to that. I really, really do. I own a Tesla (2023 Model Y Long Range 7-seat), and I do enjoy my Model Y; I have some complaints, but overall I'm happy with the safety features of the vehicle. I do not and will not enable the FSD or Auto-steer; but otherwise I am happy with it, and want other car manufacturers to take note of the vertical technological integration possible when they put their minds to it. However, in pursuit of a better bottom line, Tesla has made some affordance changes to their post 2023 models; and even their camera vision in the 2023 model is a poor substitute for ultra-sonic sensors for parking. Combine that with their gutting of the Tesla Supercharger team; and the subsequent decline in quality of their supercharger experience, and then combine that with the macro-economic issues that are surrounding EV range and EV experiences in real world conditions; and you have a decline that can be attributed to the non-Musk effects as well. I don't doubt his political machinations have contributed to Tesla's decline. If I could sell my Tesla, I would; (I am way underwater due to its steep drop in resale value), but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV.

homefree 1y ago
You should really try FSD, I have it drive me from SF down the peninsula and back every day and it’s amazing, basically requires zero intervention. I think the political complaints are dumb and people over index on stuff that doesn’t matter because of partisan politics. HN has hated on Tesla and musk for years despite continued success across multiple difficult industries. If the robotaxi work in Austin succeeds they’ll have a massive advantage. There’s really nobody close to what Tesla is doing. I had a 2018 M3P and now a 2025 Model S Plaid, the vision stuff works better, the quality is a lot nicer, there are a lot more superchargers and more are v3 or v4. The quality of the comments on this thread suggest there’s still value here to buy. When people dismiss stuff for dumb reasons it’s easy to make money. It’s been the story of Tesla from the beginning.
- gortok 1y ago
  I'm sure Teslas automated features work well in California, where their engineers are based. They do not, however, work as well in the varying climates found on the East Coast. This is funny as a "works on my machine" approach to testing, but tragic since real lives are at stake.
  - homefree 1y ago
    My dad takes his from Western New York down to Florida pretty regularly and does FSD most of the way. I think these complaints are just outdated - it has improved rapidly over the last two years. If you never use it why would you think you have an accurate model for how good it is in different environments? SF is also hardly a simple environment to drive in, it’s more complicated than most east coast driving.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > My dad takes his from Western New York down to Florida pretty regularly and does FSD most of the way. To avoid the winter weather (which a Tesla finds problematic), one presumes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person)
    - p-o 1y ago
      I know you are making stuff up as I own a Tesla and live on the East coast and FSD is nowhere close to what you are describing. You can barely use FSD 4 months out of the year.
      - homefree 1y ago
        Do you have hardware 4? I’m not making things up, it works for me and I use it a lot.
      - gortok 1y ago
        I use their adaptive cruise control; and unless they intentionally nerfed it compared to their FSD, I have to be really careful using it in the DC area, as it will randomly brake in certain places. With the latest Tesla Updates I can tell it thinks there's a grade or curve issue that is causing it to brake; but before the latest update it would just randomly brake in certain places (coming down from 70 to 40 very quickly) and that is just dangerous in the DC area.
thfuran 1y ago
>Musk's seemingly oblivious approach to "Move fast and break things" in government DOGE wasn't incidentally and accidentally breaking things in their effort to save money, they were yammering about saving money as they systematically gutted the regulatory agencies investigating Musk.
- mikeyouse 1y ago
  To be fair, they also dismantled tons of important things with quiet constituencies that had nothing to do with Musk (USAID / PEPFAR, NIH, NEA, etc. etc.)
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Sure, foreign aid to Africa has "nothing to do with" a white South African who forced his AI to spread disinformation about "white genocide" (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/16/technology/xai-elon-musk-south-africa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/16/technology/xai-elon-musk-...) and managed to get white South Africans to be brought in as refugees as a political stunt (https://apnews.com/article/trump-south-africa-refugees-afrikaner-white-f5ed3aa615e0448157f8c4752d2a0cc7 https://apnews.com/article/trump-south-africa-refugees-afrik...).
    - mikeyouse 1y ago
      I meant in the context of helping him / his businesses - he clearly has an 'interest' in Africa but there was no financial or regulatory incentive for those cuts - they were just malicious on their own.
- dmix 1y ago
  > gutted FAA laid off 400 employees out of 45,000. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration laid off 4% of their employees CFPB was responsible for probing Tesla for any customer complaints around auto-financing loans but they had not yet ever formally fined or sued Tesla. They were closest attempt at being 'gutted' with around 90% reduction, but all layoffs were halted by a judge. So if he did try to gut them he failed.
epolanski 1y ago
> but otherwise I am happy with it, and want other car manufacturers to take note of the vertical technological integration possible when they put their minds to it Can you make practical examples of this vertical technological integration?
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  (responding to earlier version of comment referencing China). Note that Tesla learned a lot of their vertical integration and manufacturing expertise from the Chinese. Their first factory in Fremont produced low quality product at a high price. Then they built a factory in China using a lot of local expertise which produced a much higher quality product much cheaper. Their German factory is a clone of the Chinese factory. Reports are that Ford is in panic mode after analyzing the quality and performance of recent Chinese cars. If other companies are similar perhaps positive changes will be made in at least some of them.
- gortok 1y ago
  Let me start with the App. The Tesla App allows me to lock, unlock the car, pop and close the trunk, check the cameras, schedule it to warm itself up, input destinations, see its real-time location, and see charging issues. The app isn't clunky to use. It's wonderful, and it's really well made. The car's infotainment system is vertically integrated; all of the features are available in one common interface and work well with one another. The car will automatically turn down the fans when I'm on a call, as just one example. The cameras turn on and show me the blind spots when I'm changing lanes (my only complaint there is that the side-view mirrors do not physically allow me to position them as recommended by NHTSA). The integrated maps also include charging station availability; and the maps automatically update (I don't need to buy an SD Card from a manufacturer with the updated maps). The software team is able to push updates to my car; so if there are bugs with their bluetooth, it gets fixed without me having to go to the dealership and hoping they care enough about their technology stack to fix it. If there are bugs, they get fixed; and since they're not dealing with different third-party modules, they own the entire stack that is in the car. My only complaints are that I can't use Waze on my Tesla, which shows where cops are, and sometimes their navigation routes are wonky and aren't practical (like driving through the middle of DC to avoid going around the beltway), but otherwise the technical experience of owning and operating a tesla an using their infotainment system is lightyears ahead of any other car I've driven. Contra that with the Volkswagen I just rented where its Carplay crashed and crashed the whole infotainment system; or the bug where its rearview camera stayed on until I manually closed it when I shifted into drive;
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
WA 1y ago
> but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. If this were true, the market for EVs would decline in entirety. But it doesn't, or at least, not by 14%. For many people, EVs are ok, despite their real-world drawbacks: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales Slight drawbacks can be attributed to ending of subsidies for EV purchases, not necessarily because EVs are inherently worse than ICE cars.
- trimbo 1y ago
  > If this were true, the market for EVs would decline in entirety I was just reading a different article[1] that pointed out 4 of the top EV sellers in the US (Tesla, Ford, Kia and Hyundai) have announced Q2 drops in sales. BMW is the another top EV seller whose sales dropped in Q2[2]. Of major sellers, only GM has risen. It's probably too early to say that "the market for EVs" is declining, but this doesn't seem great. [1] - https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-sales-q2-2025-e2087c11?mod=hp_lead_pos3 https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-sales-q2-2025-e2087... [2] - https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2025/07/01/1549392-bmw-reports-q2-2025-u-s-sales-results.html https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2025/07/01/1549392-bmw-r...
  - WA 1y ago
    Are we talking US or world-wide? Because Tesla figures are world-wide. According to the article of this HN thread, Tesla doesn't provide per-country numbers. Your [2] seems to be BMW US. [1] is paywalled.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    GM sales have more than doubled. EV's do seem to be more of a winner-take-all market than gasoline vehicles. So overall numbers (which are up) seem more relevant.
    - evanelias 1y ago
      When comparing 2024 H1 to 2025 H1, those GM numbers are skewed. They stopped producing the Chevy Bolt at the end of 2023, and didn't start selling the Equinox EV until May 2024. So their 2024 H1 EV numbers were lower than usual.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
Up until 2021, everybody buying an EV expected to be underwater. EV prices were dropping 10% per year and Tesla was promising to deliver the Cybertruck for $40k. So if you could get a Cybertruck for $40K, a new Model Y would be a similar price. And if anybody could get a new model Y for $40K, obviously a used Model Y would be worth substantially less than that. But we bought anyway -- it was like buying computers 20 years ago -- yes, you could buy a lot more computer for less money in a few months, but if you were always waiting you'd never buy a computer. The difference is that we expected the same thing to happen to gas cars. If you can buy a good electric car brand new for $30K, any used car gas or electric is worth substantially less than that. And that's what would happen if we had access to Chinese cars and prices. $8K for a pretty good small car. $15K for a model 3 competitor. $25K for a model Y competitor. $35K for Porsche Macan competitor.
- ahahahahah 1y ago
  > Up until 2021, everybody buying an EV expected to be underwater Not if they believed the CEO of Tesla, he was out there telling them they would be buying an appreciating asset. And now, that might sound dumb (and in hindsight very clearly is), but there were a lot of people who did believe.
vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
“I don't doubt his political machinations have contributed to Tesla's decline. If I could sell my Tesla, I would; (I am way underwater due to its steep drop in resale value), but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. ” I don’t know anybody who would go back to ICE after owning an EV. But I know a lot of people including myself who wouldn’t buy a Tesla because of Musk’s behavior. For me it started with the Thai cave rescue and Musk’s stupid submarine.
dspillett 1y ago
> I don't doubt his political machinations have contributed to Tesla's decline. If I could sell my Tesla, I would; (I am way underwater due to its steep drop in resale value), but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. I'm pretty sure his political playing around has had an effect, though I think other issues such as well documented quality problems and bad comparisons to other EVs has had a greater effect. The joke that is the cybertruck is a large part of the problem too, some people don't want to be associated with that and wouldn't even if it were not for the other matters, and and its quality problems (how many recalls have there been now?) are far more well known than the issues in the rest of the product range (those products are on the whole a lot better, but is the average reasonable buyer going to take that risk?).
eightysixfour 1y ago
> but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV.but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. What is the "hype" of owning an EV? I've owned one, I now have a hybrid. It wasn't because the EV didn't live up to some imagined hype, it was actually one of the better cars I've ever owned at its job, but my requirements changed an an EV didn't fit. On a per mile basis it was cheap, the performance was exceptional, and the infotainment was light years ahead of most other vehicles. Is there someone out there expecting it to walk the dog and cook and clean too?
- mynameisash 1y ago
  > On a per mile basis it was cheap Just to make this concrete: I keep spreadsheets for all my vehicles, and I enter every single fuel up. My family's CRV costs $0.161/mile to drive. I bought a VW ID.4 in January, and I also track its recharges. That car costs $0.030/mile. I don't know yet about maintenance, but just for the daily driving, gas costs 5.36x that of an EV. What would be a $45 fill-up of gas is an $8.40 electric bill.
  - Marsymars 1y ago
    On a per-mile basis, depreciation is a real killer. I just (like an hour ago) sold the car that I’ve been driving for the past 12 years. I paid $11k in cash for it, and sold it for $3k. Unless you do a lot of driving, it’s tough for an EV to make up that kind of difference based on cheaper fuel.
    - eightysixfour 1y ago
      The story was the other way around a few years ago. It’ll swing back and forth as they are in and out of fashion. I sold my model 3 for approximately what I bought it for. My net cost per mile, including electricity and maintenance, was a joke.
- gortok 1y ago
dmix 1y ago
BYD is probably the biggest factor here. Their sales were spiking in Europe and elsewhere even before the recent drama. If I was a Tesla shareholder I'd be much more worried about that, as news cycles move on pretty fast while competition will only get stiffer. Tesla is just lucky BYD is banned in places like Canada because the domestic car companies know they can't compete.
AlecSchueler 1y ago
But EV sales in general are up.

by gortok 1y ago

homefree 1y ago

You should really try FSD, I have it drive me from SF down the peninsula and back every day and it’s amazing, basically requires zero intervention. I think the political complaints are dumb and people over index on stuff that doesn’t matter because of partisan politics. HN has hated on Tesla and musk for years despite continued success across multiple difficult industries. If the robotaxi work in Austin succeeds they’ll have a massive advantage. There’s really nobody close to what Tesla is doing. I had a 2018 M3P and now a 2025 Model S Plaid, the vision stuff works better, the quality is a lot nicer, there are a lot more superchargers and more are v3 or v4. The quality of the comments on this thread suggest there’s still value here to buy. When people dismiss stuff for dumb reasons it’s easy to make money. It’s been the story of Tesla from the beginning.

gortok 1y ago
I'm sure Teslas automated features work well in California, where their engineers are based. They do not, however, work as well in the varying climates found on the East Coast. This is funny as a "works on my machine" approach to testing, but tragic since real lives are at stake.
- homefree 1y ago
  My dad takes his from Western New York down to Florida pretty regularly and does FSD most of the way. I think these complaints are just outdated - it has improved rapidly over the last two years. If you never use it why would you think you have an accurate model for how good it is in different environments? SF is also hardly a simple environment to drive in, it’s more complicated than most east coast driving.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > My dad takes his from Western New York down to Florida pretty regularly and does FSD most of the way. To avoid the winter weather (which a Tesla finds problematic), one presumes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person)
  - p-o 1y ago
    I know you are making stuff up as I own a Tesla and live on the East coast and FSD is nowhere close to what you are describing. You can barely use FSD 4 months out of the year.
    - homefree 1y ago
      Do you have hardware 4? I’m not making things up, it works for me and I use it a lot.
    - gortok 1y ago
      I use their adaptive cruise control; and unless they intentionally nerfed it compared to their FSD, I have to be really careful using it in the DC area, as it will randomly brake in certain places. With the latest Tesla Updates I can tell it thinks there's a grade or curve issue that is causing it to brake; but before the latest update it would just randomly brake in certain places (coming down from 70 to 40 very quickly) and that is just dangerous in the DC area.

thfuran 1y ago

>Musk's seemingly oblivious approach to "Move fast and break things" in government DOGE wasn't incidentally and accidentally breaking things in their effort to save money, they were yammering about saving money as they systematically gutted the regulatory agencies investigating Musk.

mikeyouse 1y ago
To be fair, they also dismantled tons of important things with quiet constituencies that had nothing to do with Musk (USAID / PEPFAR, NIH, NEA, etc. etc.)
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Sure, foreign aid to Africa has "nothing to do with" a white South African who forced his AI to spread disinformation about "white genocide" (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/16/technology/xai-elon-musk-south-africa.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/16/technology/xai-elon-musk-...) and managed to get white South Africans to be brought in as refugees as a political stunt (https://apnews.com/article/trump-south-africa-refugees-afrikaner-white-f5ed3aa615e0448157f8c4752d2a0cc7 https://apnews.com/article/trump-south-africa-refugees-afrik...).
  - mikeyouse 1y ago
    I meant in the context of helping him / his businesses - he clearly has an 'interest' in Africa but there was no financial or regulatory incentive for those cuts - they were just malicious on their own.
dmix 1y ago
> gutted FAA laid off 400 employees out of 45,000. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration laid off 4% of their employees CFPB was responsible for probing Tesla for any customer complaints around auto-financing loans but they had not yet ever formally fined or sued Tesla. They were closest attempt at being 'gutted' with around 90% reduction, but all layoffs were halted by a judge. So if he did try to gut them he failed.

epolanski 1y ago

> but otherwise I am happy with it, and want other car manufacturers to take note of the vertical technological integration possible when they put their minds to it Can you make practical examples of this vertical technological integration?

bryanlarsen 1y ago
(responding to earlier version of comment referencing China). Note that Tesla learned a lot of their vertical integration and manufacturing expertise from the Chinese. Their first factory in Fremont produced low quality product at a high price. Then they built a factory in China using a lot of local expertise which produced a much higher quality product much cheaper. Their German factory is a clone of the Chinese factory. Reports are that Ford is in panic mode after analyzing the quality and performance of recent Chinese cars. If other companies are similar perhaps positive changes will be made in at least some of them.
gortok 1y ago
Let me start with the App. The Tesla App allows me to lock, unlock the car, pop and close the trunk, check the cameras, schedule it to warm itself up, input destinations, see its real-time location, and see charging issues. The app isn't clunky to use. It's wonderful, and it's really well made. The car's infotainment system is vertically integrated; all of the features are available in one common interface and work well with one another. The car will automatically turn down the fans when I'm on a call, as just one example. The cameras turn on and show me the blind spots when I'm changing lanes (my only complaint there is that the side-view mirrors do not physically allow me to position them as recommended by NHTSA). The integrated maps also include charging station availability; and the maps automatically update (I don't need to buy an SD Card from a manufacturer with the updated maps). The software team is able to push updates to my car; so if there are bugs with their bluetooth, it gets fixed without me having to go to the dealership and hoping they care enough about their technology stack to fix it. If there are bugs, they get fixed; and since they're not dealing with different third-party modules, they own the entire stack that is in the car. My only complaints are that I can't use Waze on my Tesla, which shows where cops are, and sometimes their navigation routes are wonky and aren't practical (like driving through the middle of DC to avoid going around the beltway), but otherwise the technical experience of owning and operating a tesla an using their infotainment system is lightyears ahead of any other car I've driven. Contra that with the Volkswagen I just rented where its Carplay crashed and crashed the whole infotainment system; or the bug where its rearview camera stayed on until I manually closed it when I shifted into drive;

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

WA 1y ago

> but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. If this were true, the market for EVs would decline in entirety. But it doesn't, or at least, not by 14%. For many people, EVs are ok, despite their real-world drawbacks: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales Slight drawbacks can be attributed to ending of subsidies for EV purchases, not necessarily because EVs are inherently worse than ICE cars.

trimbo 1y ago
> If this were true, the market for EVs would decline in entirety I was just reading a different article[1] that pointed out 4 of the top EV sellers in the US (Tesla, Ford, Kia and Hyundai) have announced Q2 drops in sales. BMW is the another top EV seller whose sales dropped in Q2[2]. Of major sellers, only GM has risen. It's probably too early to say that "the market for EVs" is declining, but this doesn't seem great. [1] - https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-sales-q2-2025-e2087c11?mod=hp_lead_pos3 https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/tesla-sales-q2-2025-e2087... [2] - https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2025/07/01/1549392-bmw-reports-q2-2025-u-s-sales-results.html https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2025/07/01/1549392-bmw-r...
- WA 1y ago
  Are we talking US or world-wide? Because Tesla figures are world-wide. According to the article of this HN thread, Tesla doesn't provide per-country numbers. Your [2] seems to be BMW US. [1] is paywalled.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  GM sales have more than doubled. EV's do seem to be more of a winner-take-all market than gasoline vehicles. So overall numbers (which are up) seem more relevant.
  - evanelias 1y ago
    When comparing 2024 H1 to 2025 H1, those GM numbers are skewed. They stopped producing the Chevy Bolt at the end of 2023, and didn't start selling the Equinox EV until May 2024. So their 2024 H1 EV numbers were lower than usual.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

Up until 2021, everybody buying an EV expected to be underwater. EV prices were dropping 10% per year and Tesla was promising to deliver the Cybertruck for $40k. So if you could get a Cybertruck for $40K, a new Model Y would be a similar price. And if anybody could get a new model Y for $40K, obviously a used Model Y would be worth substantially less than that. But we bought anyway -- it was like buying computers 20 years ago -- yes, you could buy a lot more computer for less money in a few months, but if you were always waiting you'd never buy a computer. The difference is that we expected the same thing to happen to gas cars. If you can buy a good electric car brand new for $30K, any used car gas or electric is worth substantially less than that. And that's what would happen if we had access to Chinese cars and prices. $8K for a pretty good small car. $15K for a model 3 competitor. $25K for a model Y competitor. $35K for Porsche Macan competitor.

ahahahahah 1y ago
> Up until 2021, everybody buying an EV expected to be underwater Not if they believed the CEO of Tesla, he was out there telling them they would be buying an appreciating asset. And now, that might sound dumb (and in hindsight very clearly is), but there were a lot of people who did believe.

vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago

“I don't doubt his political machinations have contributed to Tesla's decline. If I could sell my Tesla, I would; (I am way underwater due to its steep drop in resale value), but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. ” I don’t know anybody who would go back to ICE after owning an EV. But I know a lot of people including myself who wouldn’t buy a Tesla because of Musk’s behavior. For me it started with the Thai cave rescue and Musk’s stupid submarine.

dspillett 1y ago

> I don't doubt his political machinations have contributed to Tesla's decline. If I could sell my Tesla, I would; (I am way underwater due to its steep drop in resale value), but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. I'm pretty sure his political playing around has had an effect, though I think other issues such as well documented quality problems and bad comparisons to other EVs has had a greater effect. The joke that is the cybertruck is a large part of the problem too, some people don't want to be associated with that and wouldn't even if it were not for the other matters, and and its quality problems (how many recalls have there been now?) are far more well known than the issues in the rest of the product range (those products are on the whole a lot better, but is the average reasonable buyer going to take that risk?).

eightysixfour 1y ago

> but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV.but I think a substantial percentage of this drop can be attributable to the hype of the EV not living up to the reality of owning an EV. What is the "hype" of owning an EV? I've owned one, I now have a hybrid. It wasn't because the EV didn't live up to some imagined hype, it was actually one of the better cars I've ever owned at its job, but my requirements changed an an EV didn't fit. On a per mile basis it was cheap, the performance was exceptional, and the infotainment was light years ahead of most other vehicles. Is there someone out there expecting it to walk the dog and cook and clean too?

mynameisash 1y ago
> On a per mile basis it was cheap Just to make this concrete: I keep spreadsheets for all my vehicles, and I enter every single fuel up. My family's CRV costs $0.161/mile to drive. I bought a VW ID.4 in January, and I also track its recharges. That car costs $0.030/mile. I don't know yet about maintenance, but just for the daily driving, gas costs 5.36x that of an EV. What would be a $45 fill-up of gas is an $8.40 electric bill.
- Marsymars 1y ago
  On a per-mile basis, depreciation is a real killer. I just (like an hour ago) sold the car that I’ve been driving for the past 12 years. I paid $11k in cash for it, and sold it for $3k. Unless you do a lot of driving, it’s tough for an EV to make up that kind of difference based on cheaper fuel.
  - eightysixfour 1y ago
    The story was the other way around a few years ago. It’ll swing back and forth as they are in and out of fashion. I sold my model 3 for approximately what I bought it for. My net cost per mile, including electricity and maintenance, was a joke.
gortok 1y ago

dmix 1y ago

BYD is probably the biggest factor here. Their sales were spiking in Europe and elsewhere even before the recent drama. If I was a Tesla shareholder I'd be much more worried about that, as news cycles move on pretty fast while competition will only get stiffer. Tesla is just lucky BYD is banned in places like Canada because the domestic car companies know they can't compete.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

But EV sales in general are up.