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> An early-career biological anthropologist said she was still awaiting contract details from AMU before putting pen to paper because of salary discrepancies, t

by maeln 1y ago

> An early-career biological anthropologist said she was still awaiting contract details from AMU before putting pen to paper because of salary discrepancies, though she took comfort in the fact that the cost of living is lower in France — especially considering that education for her two children, who she said were eager to settle in Marseille, would be free. Researcher are severely under paid in France (young researcher often earn barely more than the minimum wage). I doubt she will find the salary to her expectation (though the very strong worker right, and 5 weeks vacation might compensate for that). In general, research is severely underfunded in France. That is nice that we try to make a gesture toward researcher under threat, but how many of them will we be able to keep when they realized the struggle of getting any funding for research here...

jonathanlb 1y ago
This is addressed in TFA: > [...] the fact there's less money for research. > An early-career biological anthropologist said she was still awaiting contract details from AMU before putting pen to paper because of salary discrepancies, though she took comfort in the fact that the cost of living is lower in France — especially considering that education for her two children, who she said were eager to settle in Marseille, would be free. > The university’s president insisted that participants in the “Safe Place for Science” program would be paid the same wages as French researchers. The statement sought to appease concerns within France’s academic community that money would now be focused on drawing U.S. scientists whereas local researchers have long complained of insufficient funding. > But the biological anthropologist said a more carefree life could compensate for a lower salary. "There’ll be a lot less stress as a whole, politically, academically," she reflected.
- maeln 1y ago
  The underfunding is not addressed, and it is not even a subject in France right now. This specific researcher might be fine with a more carefree life (that is, what she thinks might be a more carefree life), but the general issue remains.
jltsiren 1y ago
Researchers are underpaid and research is underfunded everywhere. Like most jobs that people find inherently interesting. I don't know about the specific situation in France. In general, Europe spends more on academic research than the US, both in absolute terms and as a fraction of GDP. However, it's easier to make an academic career in the US. Because the gap between academic and industry salaries is wider in the US, Americans are more likely to leave the academia after PhD. And because employment-based immigration is particularly difficult in the US, many would-be immigrants end up doing a PhD without any intention of staying in the academia. Which means you have less competition if you stay in the academia in the US.
- vorpalhex 1y ago
  > In general, Europe spends more on academic research than the US, both in absolute terms and as a fraction of GDP. This statement appears to be incorrect. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20241211-2 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d... has the EU at $380B https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf24332 https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf24332 has the US Fed (not state) at $880B.
  - jltsiren 1y ago
    I was talking about academic research, where the total spending is ~$100 billion/year in both blocks. See, for example, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf25313 https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf25313 and https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-international-comparisons https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-internatio...
zzzeek 1y ago
you get to live in France, have free health care and school for your kids (and I bet these underpaid researchers in france actually get completely unheard of in the US things like modest pensions). How much do you actually need to be paid? Most Americans would materially benefit from such an exchange
- Invictus0 1y ago
  > free healthcare > earn 40k/yr > get taxed 30% on it
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - zzzeek 1y ago
      pointless pedantry "free" means "no payment is due for medical care, regardless of how extensive the care"
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      If we redefine words to have no meaning, then there is no such thing as words with meaning, yes.
    - rickydroll 1y ago
      Which is why I prefer to differentiate them as taxpayer-funded versus employer-subsidized health care
  - zzzeek 1y ago
    can bike to work without being run down by a 10 ft high pickup truck, I dunno sign me up maybe
  - jonathanlb 1y ago
    > get taxes 30% on it As opposed to paying more out of pocket or getting denied a claim? No thank you.
computerthings 1y ago
[dead]
spacemadness 1y ago
At least it beats being attacked by your government daily for having the audacity to become a scientist. Especially if you publish science that isn’t politically convenient.

by maeln 1y ago

jonathanlb 1y ago

This is addressed in TFA: > [...] the fact there's less money for research. > An early-career biological anthropologist said she was still awaiting contract details from AMU before putting pen to paper because of salary discrepancies, though she took comfort in the fact that the cost of living is lower in France — especially considering that education for her two children, who she said were eager to settle in Marseille, would be free. > The university’s president insisted that participants in the “Safe Place for Science” program would be paid the same wages as French researchers. The statement sought to appease concerns within France’s academic community that money would now be focused on drawing U.S. scientists whereas local researchers have long complained of insufficient funding. > But the biological anthropologist said a more carefree life could compensate for a lower salary. "There’ll be a lot less stress as a whole, politically, academically," she reflected.

maeln 1y ago
The underfunding is not addressed, and it is not even a subject in France right now. This specific researcher might be fine with a more carefree life (that is, what she thinks might be a more carefree life), but the general issue remains.

jltsiren 1y ago

Researchers are underpaid and research is underfunded everywhere. Like most jobs that people find inherently interesting. I don't know about the specific situation in France. In general, Europe spends more on academic research than the US, both in absolute terms and as a fraction of GDP. However, it's easier to make an academic career in the US. Because the gap between academic and industry salaries is wider in the US, Americans are more likely to leave the academia after PhD. And because employment-based immigration is particularly difficult in the US, many would-be immigrants end up doing a PhD without any intention of staying in the academia. Which means you have less competition if you stay in the academia in the US.

vorpalhex 1y ago
> In general, Europe spends more on academic research than the US, both in absolute terms and as a fraction of GDP. This statement appears to be incorrect. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20241211-2 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d... has the EU at $380B https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf24332 https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf24332 has the US Fed (not state) at $880B.
- jltsiren 1y ago
  I was talking about academic research, where the total spending is ~$100 billion/year in both blocks. See, for example, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf25313 https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf25313 and https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-international-comparisons https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-internatio...

zzzeek 1y ago

you get to live in France, have free health care and school for your kids (and I bet these underpaid researchers in france actually get completely unheard of in the US things like modest pensions). How much do you actually need to be paid? Most Americans would materially benefit from such an exchange

Invictus0 1y ago
> free healthcare > earn 40k/yr > get taxed 30% on it
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - zzzeek 1y ago
    pointless pedantry "free" means "no payment is due for medical care, regardless of how extensive the care"
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    If we redefine words to have no meaning, then there is no such thing as words with meaning, yes.
  - rickydroll 1y ago
    Which is why I prefer to differentiate them as taxpayer-funded versus employer-subsidized health care
- zzzeek 1y ago
  can bike to work without being run down by a 10 ft high pickup truck, I dunno sign me up maybe
- jonathanlb 1y ago
  > get taxes 30% on it As opposed to paying more out of pocket or getting denied a claim? No thank you.

computerthings 1y ago

[dead]

spacemadness 1y ago

At least it beats being attacked by your government daily for having the audacity to become a scientist. Especially if you publish science that isn’t politically convenient.