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If only there were 4 different HTML attributes[1][2][3][4] you could use to add a descriptive label to an arbitrary HTML element.... 1. https://developer.mozil

If only there were 4 different HTML attributes[1][2][3][4] you could use to add a descriptive label to an arbitrary HTML element.... 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Global_attributes/title https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/... 2. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/Reference/Attributes/aria-label https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A... 3. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/Reference/Attributes/aria-description https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A... 4. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/ARIA/Reference/Attributes/aria-describedby https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/A...

cluckindan 1y ago
One would hope those work the same in every browser + screen reader + language combination, but alas, it is not so.
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  So maybe those user agents (the browsers and screen readers) should fix their shit instead. Crazy idea, I know.
  - cluckindan 1y ago
    They definitely should. However, those will be large investments, so at least JAWS and VoiceOver are going to be waiting for WCAG 3.0 before tackling that. NVDA is open source, so I guess you could help them out with it. ;-) The larger issue is that developing software for multiple platforms and multiple browsers and multiple different types of human interface devices (from eye tracking to sip-and-puff joysticks) from dozens of vendors is an extremely complex affair. Users may even employ multiple different screen readers in different contexts to work around incompatibilities.
    - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
      The point is that it's not really my (or other web developers) their responsibility that some 3rd party tool is garbage. It's like designing your whole website around some esoteric browser's behavior that less than 1% of your users use. Sure, sure, we need to accommodate people with disabilities. First step to get there is to make sure the accessibility software isn't trash.
      - cluckindan 1y ago
        I get where you’re coming from, but this garbage is not optional everywhere around the world. Not in the US, even less in the EU. The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. The ADA, specifically Title III, applies to public accommodations (including websites), requiring them to be accessible. Section 508 mandates that federal agencies ensure their electronic and information technology, including websites, is accessible to people with disabilities. The EU Web Accessibility Directive and the European Accessibility Act (EAA) are key pieces of legislation aimed at improving digital accessibility for people with disabilities within the European Union. The Directive focuses on public sector websites and mobile applications, while the EAA expands accessibility requirements to a wider range of products and services, including those in e-commerce, banking, and travel.
        snickerdoodle12 1y ago
        Yes, and it's an embarrassment and a failure to legislate the right thing.
        komali2 1y ago
        So either fix it by changing the legislation, or fix it by changing the FOSS software... or do the only thing you can actually do right now which is implement websites in a way that's most likely to consistently work well with existing a11y solutions.
        1y ago
  - DrewADesign 1y ago
    After a couple decades of relying on pragmatic hacks and loose conventions while hoping developers would start to take accessibility standards seriously, most just seemed to give up hope and concentrate on making software blind people can actually use. And that happened, like, a decade ago.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
  They're not supposed to work the same in every browser. The user is supposed to be able to choose software that works how they want/suits their needs. You follow the standards and the user selects software that interprets those standards in their preferred way.

cluckindan 1y ago

One would hope those work the same in every browser + screen reader + language combination, but alas, it is not so.

snickerdoodle12 1y ago
So maybe those user agents (the browsers and screen readers) should fix their shit instead. Crazy idea, I know.
- cluckindan 1y ago
  They definitely should. However, those will be large investments, so at least JAWS and VoiceOver are going to be waiting for WCAG 3.0 before tackling that. NVDA is open source, so I guess you could help them out with it. ;-) The larger issue is that developing software for multiple platforms and multiple browsers and multiple different types of human interface devices (from eye tracking to sip-and-puff joysticks) from dozens of vendors is an extremely complex affair. Users may even employ multiple different screen readers in different contexts to work around incompatibilities.
  - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
    The point is that it's not really my (or other web developers) their responsibility that some 3rd party tool is garbage. It's like designing your whole website around some esoteric browser's behavior that less than 1% of your users use. Sure, sure, we need to accommodate people with disabilities. First step to get there is to make sure the accessibility software isn't trash.
    - cluckindan 1y ago
      I get where you’re coming from, but this garbage is not optional everywhere around the world. Not in the US, even less in the EU. The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. The ADA, specifically Title III, applies to public accommodations (including websites), requiring them to be accessible. Section 508 mandates that federal agencies ensure their electronic and information technology, including websites, is accessible to people with disabilities. The EU Web Accessibility Directive and the European Accessibility Act (EAA) are key pieces of legislation aimed at improving digital accessibility for people with disabilities within the European Union. The Directive focuses on public sector websites and mobile applications, while the EAA expands accessibility requirements to a wider range of products and services, including those in e-commerce, banking, and travel.
      - snickerdoodle12 1y ago
        Yes, and it's an embarrassment and a failure to legislate the right thing.
        komali2 1y ago
        So either fix it by changing the legislation, or fix it by changing the FOSS software... or do the only thing you can actually do right now which is implement websites in a way that's most likely to consistently work well with existing a11y solutions.
        1y ago
- DrewADesign 1y ago
  After a couple decades of relying on pragmatic hacks and loose conventions while hoping developers would start to take accessibility standards seriously, most just seemed to give up hope and concentrate on making software blind people can actually use. And that happened, like, a decade ago.
ndriscoll 1y ago
They're not supposed to work the same in every browser. The user is supposed to be able to choose software that works how they want/suits their needs. You follow the standards and the user selects software that interprets those standards in their preferred way.