4 ms·

That's socialism for you.

diggan 1y ago
Yeah, it's great :) Me, with high income, can help those with lower income and even those that cannot work, and I don't have to do anything more than filling out some papers once a year. I wouldn't want it any other way.
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
  Move to Cuba then. It's like a little part of the USSR in a time capsule. Quite a surreal place for people like me who were born in the USSR.
  - Philpax 1y ago
    Why would they do that when they're doing fine in Spain?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
      Because they won't be fine for much longer under their socialist government. Look at Spanish economy: high public debt, high unemployment, low productivity growth. All this results in low competitiveness, and will inevitably lead to the necessity to get off the train of taxing everyone into prosperity.
      - diggan 1y ago
        > Because they won't be fine for much longer under their socialist government How long would a state required to be socialist before you consider it to not be in a perpetual state of "this will fail tomorrow"? Since you consider Spain socialist, that means you probably consider Sweden socialist as well then, since it's more "socialist" on basically every metric I can think of? If so, Sweden been socialist close to 100 years (about 3 times longer than Spain), is Sweden also about to go down the drain then because of the welfare policies? > Look at Spanish economy: high public debt, high unemployment, low productivity growth Good example. For the last 10 years, debt is slightly worse, unemployment is dramatically better and the productivity remains unchanged. Yet, we have public health care. So seems socialism might not actually be so bad after all.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    You know Europe exist right?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
      Yes, and the more socialistic it gets, the worse it becomes. Also, the naivety and arrogance of ppl here who have never experienced real socialism is something.
      - Hikikomori 1y ago
        Yes, northern Europe well known to be hell on earth.
        Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        Pretty much. Sweden was almost destroyed by socialists in the 1970-80s, which culminated in 1990..1994 crisis, and they only got back on track when they rolled back the most insane economic initiatives of previous governments. They sharply reduced public spending and significantly deregulated the economy, which allowed them to recover. But now, public spending creeps back up again, and the outcome is unlikely to be different this time. Also, if you wonder why so few big unicorn companies appear in Europe, look no further than their tax policies.
        Hikikomori 1y ago
        Mm yes, billionaires per capita is the only metric that matters.
  - diggan 1y ago
    > Move to Cuba then What seems to indicate I didn't like where I currently live? Not sure why I'd want to live in something similar to the USSR, that sounds all-around bad. Did I misunderstand something or are you misunderstanding what I've been writing?
    - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
      I think you are misunderstanding socialism and what it brings to its victims. Cuba is a very good demo of what socialism eventually results in.
      - diggan 1y ago
        That could be. It could also be that you have a very single-minded understanding of socialism, since you seem to think that Cuba and USSR are the two only countries who've had socialist policies ever.
      - mandmandam 1y ago
        It seems more than a little disingenuous to inflict trillions of dollars in damage through sanctions on a small island nation, then blame their economic policy (namely, not bending the knee to the US) for their situation. > The United Nations estimated in 2023 the total economic damage to the Cuban economy to be in the "trillions of dollars" since inception [1958]. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#Economic_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... Putting that into perspective, a trillion dollars would be about $100,000 for every man woman and child in Cuba today.
        Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        I had the misfortune of being born in very socialistic USSR, so please, don't preach to about the joys of socialism to me or others who had actually experienced them. And yes, Cuban economy would have imploded even without sanctions, just like Venezuela's did.
- a-french-anon 1y ago
  No, it's not "can help", it's "forced to help under the threat of prison". Taxes aren't charity.
  - diggan 1y ago
    > Taxes aren't charity That's a matter of perspective, isn't it? :) > No, it's not "can help" I could employ similar tax-avoidance schemes as other rich people regularly do, but chose not to. I could live outside the country for 51% of the year and also avoid taxes that way, but also chose not to. Ultimately, you do have a choice on how to approach things, and how you see them. You see them as "The nanny-state is taking what's rightfully yours" then yeah, that's the perspective you have, but it's not a ground-truth and it isn't the only perspective.
- danayfm 1y ago
  I love it too. Spain taxes paid me for all years full ride scholarships to anywhere in the world. Never needed to work while atudying. Then it allowed me to steal high paying jobs in the US with no student loans. And I wasn't even a good student, I was just poor AF. I want the same for all Spaniards and will gladly pay high taxes if my family, friends, and my neighbors can also have that same opportunity.
  - diggan 1y ago
    Glad I'm not alone in wanting this for others :)

Yeah, it's great :) Me, with high income, can help those with lower income and even those that cannot work, and I don't have to do anything more than filling out some papers once a year. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
Move to Cuba then. It's like a little part of the USSR in a time capsule. Quite a surreal place for people like me who were born in the USSR.
- Philpax 1y ago
  Why would they do that when they're doing fine in Spain?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
    Because they won't be fine for much longer under their socialist government. Look at Spanish economy: high public debt, high unemployment, low productivity growth. All this results in low competitiveness, and will inevitably lead to the necessity to get off the train of taxing everyone into prosperity.
    - diggan 1y ago
      > Because they won't be fine for much longer under their socialist government How long would a state required to be socialist before you consider it to not be in a perpetual state of "this will fail tomorrow"? Since you consider Spain socialist, that means you probably consider Sweden socialist as well then, since it's more "socialist" on basically every metric I can think of? If so, Sweden been socialist close to 100 years (about 3 times longer than Spain), is Sweden also about to go down the drain then because of the welfare policies? > Look at Spanish economy: high public debt, high unemployment, low productivity growth Good example. For the last 10 years, debt is slightly worse, unemployment is dramatically better and the productivity remains unchanged. Yet, we have public health care. So seems socialism might not actually be so bad after all.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  You know Europe exist right?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
    Yes, and the more socialistic it gets, the worse it becomes. Also, the naivety and arrogance of ppl here who have never experienced real socialism is something.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Yes, northern Europe well known to be hell on earth.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        Pretty much. Sweden was almost destroyed by socialists in the 1970-80s, which culminated in 1990..1994 crisis, and they only got back on track when they rolled back the most insane economic initiatives of previous governments. They sharply reduced public spending and significantly deregulated the economy, which allowed them to recover. But now, public spending creeps back up again, and the outcome is unlikely to be different this time. Also, if you wonder why so few big unicorn companies appear in Europe, look no further than their tax policies.
        Hikikomori 1y ago
        Mm yes, billionaires per capita is the only metric that matters.
- diggan 1y ago
  > Move to Cuba then What seems to indicate I didn't like where I currently live? Not sure why I'd want to live in something similar to the USSR, that sounds all-around bad. Did I misunderstand something or are you misunderstanding what I've been writing?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
    I think you are misunderstanding socialism and what it brings to its victims. Cuba is a very good demo of what socialism eventually results in.
    - diggan 1y ago
      That could be. It could also be that you have a very single-minded understanding of socialism, since you seem to think that Cuba and USSR are the two only countries who've had socialist policies ever.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      It seems more than a little disingenuous to inflict trillions of dollars in damage through sanctions on a small island nation, then blame their economic policy (namely, not bending the knee to the US) for their situation. > The United Nations estimated in 2023 the total economic damage to the Cuban economy to be in the "trillions of dollars" since inception [1958]. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#Economic_impact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... Putting that into perspective, a trillion dollars would be about $100,000 for every man woman and child in Cuba today.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 1y ago
        I had the misfortune of being born in very socialistic USSR, so please, don't preach to about the joys of socialism to me or others who had actually experienced them. And yes, Cuban economy would have imploded even without sanctions, just like Venezuela's did.
a-french-anon 1y ago
No, it's not "can help", it's "forced to help under the threat of prison". Taxes aren't charity.
- diggan 1y ago
  > Taxes aren't charity That's a matter of perspective, isn't it? :) > No, it's not "can help" I could employ similar tax-avoidance schemes as other rich people regularly do, but chose not to. I could live outside the country for 51% of the year and also avoid taxes that way, but also chose not to. Ultimately, you do have a choice on how to approach things, and how you see them. You see them as "The nanny-state is taking what's rightfully yours" then yeah, that's the perspective you have, but it's not a ground-truth and it isn't the only perspective.
danayfm 1y ago
I love it too. Spain taxes paid me for all years full ride scholarships to anywhere in the world. Never needed to work while atudying. Then it allowed me to steal high paying jobs in the US with no student loans. And I wasn't even a good student, I was just poor AF. I want the same for all Spaniards and will gladly pay high taxes if my family, friends, and my neighbors can also have that same opportunity.
- diggan 1y ago
  Glad I'm not alone in wanting this for others :)