4 ms·
Agriculture is the problem, not urban trees
by sorcerer-mar 1y ago
Agriculture is the problem, not urban trees
- readthenotes1 1y agoIt's not an either or type situation
- AnimalMuppet 1y agoNo, but it is an 80-20 type situation. 80% of the water use is agricultural.
- Henchman21 1y agoNot people attempting to live in a desert?
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y agoThe earliest human civilizations where all located in deserts. It is not a foreign thing to our species at all. However, large scale commercial agriculture in desert areas without significant ground water - that's a new thing, and it's a problem.
- bigd34lh3r3 1y ago[dead]
- fc417fc802 1y agoOutside of greenhouses. It's only an issue in an open field. Once properly enclosed the high energy availability is a major upside.
- fodkodrasz 1y agoIsn't it like the earliest (known) human civilization managed to create desert from their locations?* (or were victims of non-anthropogenic desertification) *note: the same process going on currently also via multiple means :(
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y agoIs it your suggestion that the Levant was once as well-watered and verdant as, say, the Netherlands or Hawaii? While human activities undoubtedly contributed to desertification, the Levant is geographically and climactically a desert. The amount of surface water that is available may be directly influenced by human behavior, but I do not think that human behavior changed the fundamentals of the landscape. Am I wrong?
- fodkodrasz 1y agoThe Sahara was once a forest. Its desertification was not caused by human activity. On the other hand for the Fertile Crescent: the overuse of irrigation and water steering with shorter term agricultural goals with only direct affects in mind. The area was largely marshlands in the past. And also mismanagement of forests lead to desertification of formerly fertile areas on the timescale before the current large scale climate change era began. This was before humanity could have as big possible part in the forming of climate as currently.
- defrost 1y agoOf interest: We identified why north Africa greened approximately every 21,000 years over the past eight million years. It was caused by changes in the Earth’s orbital precession - the slight wobbling of the planet while rotating. This moves the Northern Hemisphere closer to the sun during the summer months. (2023) - https://theconversation.com/the-sahara-desert-used-to-be-a-green-savannah-new-research-explains-why-216555 https://theconversation.com/the-sahara-desert-used-to-be-a-g... *What Really Turned the Sahara Desert From a Green Oasis Into a Wasteland?* - 10,000 years ago, this iconic desert was unrecognizable. A new hypothesis suggests that humans may have tipped the balance (2017) https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-tu... While I personally veer toward the more recent slight orbital variation cause, neither account factors much in the current AGW debate .. cyclic changes in local regions of the planet are a distinct issue from a steady rise in global atmospheric insulation properties.
- photonthug 1y agoYes, because living in the desert is absurd and obviously unnatural. Setting aside of course 3,000 years of civilization in Egypt. While we're at it, let's also unpack all these skyscrapers in New York and Tokyo and make sure no one is living at any height greater than the monkeys in the trees.
- lazyasciiart 1y agoThe Nile is, uh, enormously relevant to Egyptian civilization.
- photonthug 1y agoWait until you hear about the mighty Colorado. The Hoover dam wasn't just built to imprison Decepticons you know
- RhysU 1y agoWhat about the Decepticons he or she has yet to meet?
- dukeofdoom 1y agoEgypt went from 8 million to 80 million in the last century. In large part because of the rest of the world (massive grain imports from Ukraine ... for example). But it can obviously work, thanks to globalization and how cheap it's to transport things by container ships. Desalination that runs off of Solar panels makes it pretty viable for places like Dubai to exist. The cheap solar energy from the Desert, makes it attractive for future data centers to be placed there. Also, Ancient Egypt had slaves. A lot of the modern middle eastern states rely on cheap labour from India and Afghanistan. And Oil money ...
- cryzinger 1y agoVegas is hardcore about not wasting water because the water we do capture gets treated and put back in Lake Mead :) https://www.cleanwaterteam.com/about-us/who-we-are https://www.cleanwaterteam.com/about-us/who-we-are > [Las Vegas] used 38 billion gallons less water in 2024 than in 2002, despite a population increase of approximately 829,000 residents during that time. This represents a 55 percent decline in the community’s per capita water use since 2002. https://www.lvvwd.com/conservation/measures/index.html https://www.lvvwd.com/conservation/measures/index.html
- Analemma_ 1y agoI think doing agriculture in a desert is more ridiculous than living there, but the Central Valley exists all the same.
- anyonecancode 1y agoMy understanding is that agriculture in the desert works because of all the sunlight, so if water is provided it ends up actually being really good for growing plants. (also, I don't think the Central Valley is actually a desert?)
- viccis 1y ago>so if water is provided ^ the rub ^
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dendrite9 1y agoMuch of it used to be a seasonal wetland/lake until the water was diverted into canals or pumped over the mountains.
- sorcerer-mar 1y agoSimilarly, agriculture in a swamp works because of all the water. So if soil and sunlight is provided it ends up actually being really good for growing plants.
- anyonecancode 1y agoWhen I think of swampy areas I'm familiar with, they don't get as much sunlight as desert areas. It's possible to provide water to many areas that don't have a lot, but increasing total sunlight hours isn't possible.
- 1y ago