6 ms·

A few years ago I had traveled to India, and had plans to leave the country for a week then return. Big mistake. I was advised to go to the Indian embassy in

by dr_ 14y ago

A few years ago I had traveled to India, and had plans to leave the country for a week then return. Big mistake. I was advised to go to the Indian embassy in the destination country to get permission to come back. I did so, they took my passport and told me to come back the following day, hence delaying my travels within that country by a day. I returned to India ok. When i was leaving India I was asked why I had not checked in with the local police after returning. This was confusing to me but this said its a requirement for any foreigner leaving and returning within a 2 month period. As such, they wouldn't let me board the plane. I stayed in a hotel near the airport thru the weekend. On a Monday I went to the appropriate station, where there was a long line of foreigners in a similar predicament. When it was my turn, I was told i would need to show proof of a relative or someone I was staying with, so my uncle came and brought his passport and electric bill. Then I was told it would take some time, but he went in the back, met the director of that station and talked him up by mentioning people they knew in common and I got approved. Then there were no seats on my plane available for the rest of the week, but I had to get back to work, so I bought a new ticket and went home. I am Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US. I will not be returning to India ever again.

ta12121 14y ago
Perhaps they were trying to motivate you into bribing them.
sudmah 14y ago
Stay in the US and have your so called right to privacy http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/27/u-s-government-domestic-surveillance-citizens-nsa-freedom/ http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/27/u-s-government-domestic-survei...
kamaal 14y ago
>>I am Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US. I will not be returning to India ever again. Sad, I am Indian too. Born, raised in India, Bangalore. The process you describe is something that every 'Indian' here goes through. I was a little taken aback when you said 'I am Indian mind you'. I think you refer to the legal status. Because although I agree that its painful- Being an Indian you experienced what each of your country men experiences everyday. I don't see why anybody would give you preferential treatment- merely because you returned from the US. Besides this reminds of an incident about Gandhi, when he was asked why he wears and lives like a peasant after living in South Africa as a barrister wearing a suit, necktie, pant and shoes all the time. He replied that only way he can be one among the Indian and convince Indians that he can fight for them is to live like they live, wear what they wear and eat what they eat. To rub shoulders with ordinary Indian in their day to day lives. Every time a NRI complains about stuff like this I always wonder- legally sure you might be an Indian. But are you actually an 'Indian'?
- eshvk 14y ago
  I am confused: Are you actually saying that asserting one's Indian heritage means that one has to accept all the shit that happens due to an incompetent completely broken system?
  - irahul 14y ago
    > one's Indian heritage Depending on your perception, either there is no such thing as India heritage or it's so broad that it's bordering on being indistinguishable from non-Indian heritage. 1. We are talking about a country of over a billion people who are descendants of different races. Aryans, dravidians(I believe aryan invasion is under dispute but there are more people leaning towards it). I don't know what race the north-east folks are but they are different. 2. We follow differing, and sometimes totally different cultures. North and south India has different cultures; more so with north-east folks. 3. We belong to different religions with different practices. Hindu, Muslim, Sikhs, Christians, and a lot of other minorities. Owing to the huge population, even the minorities aren't really minorities. The number of Christians in India, for example, is larger than the number of Christians in Australia. 4. We have a vast economic divide. People on the peak and right of bell curve have totally different lifestyle than those on the left. People who are on the extreme right aren't any different from their else-world counterparts. 5. Even among the same income group, the lifestyle differs depending on the location. A person earning 25k/month in a small city and a person earning 25k/month in Bangalore isn't the same thing. 6. Though the low-lives tend to go up in arms every few weeks ostensibly trying to protect the Indian culture, there is no sole authority for deciding what constitutes Indian culture. If we talk about Hinduism, it has 4 vedas, 108 upnishads, and number of other books. There is no canonical book and many a times the scriptures are contradictory and/or ambiguous. More importantly, Hinduism is based more on orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Many a times courts have quashed bullshit "against Hinduism" litigations ruling that fucking read the scriptures, quote us the exact lines, make sure other scriptures don't say differently; or else don't waste the court's time. Now one might say that most of my points are about lifestyle, and don't represent Indian heritage per se. I would say lifestyle and companions are a big variable in shaping a person's values and viewpoints. Heritage, as in inheritance, depends on who you are inheriting from, and this hypothetical Indian "who" doesn't have a canonical definition. Personally, I was trying to look at myself and find out things which would constitute Indian heritage. I couldn't think of anything. Would somebody help me out with what constitutes Indian heritage?
FraaJad 14y ago
> "Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US". You are not an Indian, you are a "Person of Indian Origin". Big difference.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  This reference will be lost on most HN readers, so I'll explain for everyone else. In many situations, you are better off being white and American than a PIO (this is a very commonly used term). You will get better treatment and are less likely to be cheated by a price-gouging merchant or bureaucrat. Mendicants are much more aggressive with PIOs. Merchants are similarly more aggressive. I've had one tell me that it would cost $20 to tell me how to get to the security line[1]. When I shook my head and walked away, he yelled at me, 'That's nothing to you - you're rich!'. (He was basing that statement entirely on the fact that I was a PIO, nothing else). On the other hand, Indians pride themselves on being hospitable as a culture, so they would never treat a white person (a clear foreigner) this way. When I go to India, I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. so that it's less obvious that I'm a foreigner (trust me, they know). It's better to travel with a local (you probably have relatives there) and not to speak at all - even if your accent is flawless, your vernacular and fluidity is probably subtly off just enough to tip them off. Or, speak in a language that is native to another region within India (so that people think you're traveling from another region, and it will be harder for them to notice your accent). [1] It's not unusual to have private citizens step in and fill the gaps where there aren't enough public employees to do the job at hand, so yes, this was more or less this guy's entire job. Other people charge to 'watch over' your car in public street parking, etc.
  - irahul 14y ago
    > I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. That is interesting. Did you spend majority of your childhood elsewhere, because considering the diversity of India, it's pretty hard to tell.
    - arjunnarayan 14y ago
      I've been out of India for 6 years now. I instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" (Non Resident Indian, and apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever, especially on messageboards like hacker news [see argument in the thread above between some poor hapless PIO and resident Indians].)

by dr_ 14y ago

ta12121 14y ago

Perhaps they were trying to motivate you into bribing them.

sudmah 14y ago

Stay in the US and have your so called right to privacy http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/27/u-s-government-domestic-surveillance-citizens-nsa-freedom/ http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/27/u-s-government-domestic-survei...

kamaal 14y ago

>>I am Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US. I will not be returning to India ever again. Sad, I am Indian too. Born, raised in India, Bangalore. The process you describe is something that every 'Indian' here goes through. I was a little taken aback when you said 'I am Indian mind you'. I think you refer to the legal status. Because although I agree that its painful- Being an Indian you experienced what each of your country men experiences everyday. I don't see why anybody would give you preferential treatment- merely because you returned from the US. Besides this reminds of an incident about Gandhi, when he was asked why he wears and lives like a peasant after living in South Africa as a barrister wearing a suit, necktie, pant and shoes all the time. He replied that only way he can be one among the Indian and convince Indians that he can fight for them is to live like they live, wear what they wear and eat what they eat. To rub shoulders with ordinary Indian in their day to day lives. Every time a NRI complains about stuff like this I always wonder- legally sure you might be an Indian. But are you actually an 'Indian'?

eshvk 14y ago
I am confused: Are you actually saying that asserting one's Indian heritage means that one has to accept all the shit that happens due to an incompetent completely broken system?
- irahul 14y ago
  > one's Indian heritage Depending on your perception, either there is no such thing as India heritage or it's so broad that it's bordering on being indistinguishable from non-Indian heritage. 1. We are talking about a country of over a billion people who are descendants of different races. Aryans, dravidians(I believe aryan invasion is under dispute but there are more people leaning towards it). I don't know what race the north-east folks are but they are different. 2. We follow differing, and sometimes totally different cultures. North and south India has different cultures; more so with north-east folks. 3. We belong to different religions with different practices. Hindu, Muslim, Sikhs, Christians, and a lot of other minorities. Owing to the huge population, even the minorities aren't really minorities. The number of Christians in India, for example, is larger than the number of Christians in Australia. 4. We have a vast economic divide. People on the peak and right of bell curve have totally different lifestyle than those on the left. People who are on the extreme right aren't any different from their else-world counterparts. 5. Even among the same income group, the lifestyle differs depending on the location. A person earning 25k/month in a small city and a person earning 25k/month in Bangalore isn't the same thing. 6. Though the low-lives tend to go up in arms every few weeks ostensibly trying to protect the Indian culture, there is no sole authority for deciding what constitutes Indian culture. If we talk about Hinduism, it has 4 vedas, 108 upnishads, and number of other books. There is no canonical book and many a times the scriptures are contradictory and/or ambiguous. More importantly, Hinduism is based more on orthopraxy than orthodoxy. Many a times courts have quashed bullshit "against Hinduism" litigations ruling that fucking read the scriptures, quote us the exact lines, make sure other scriptures don't say differently; or else don't waste the court's time. Now one might say that most of my points are about lifestyle, and don't represent Indian heritage per se. I would say lifestyle and companions are a big variable in shaping a person's values and viewpoints. Heritage, as in inheritance, depends on who you are inheriting from, and this hypothetical Indian "who" doesn't have a canonical definition. Personally, I was trying to look at myself and find out things which would constitute Indian heritage. I couldn't think of anything. Would somebody help me out with what constitutes Indian heritage?

FraaJad 14y ago

> "Indian mind you, although born and raised in the US". You are not an Indian, you are a "Person of Indian Origin". Big difference.

chimeracoder 14y ago
This reference will be lost on most HN readers, so I'll explain for everyone else. In many situations, you are better off being white and American than a PIO (this is a very commonly used term). You will get better treatment and are less likely to be cheated by a price-gouging merchant or bureaucrat. Mendicants are much more aggressive with PIOs. Merchants are similarly more aggressive. I've had one tell me that it would cost $20 to tell me how to get to the security line[1]. When I shook my head and walked away, he yelled at me, 'That's nothing to you - you're rich!'. (He was basing that statement entirely on the fact that I was a PIO, nothing else). On the other hand, Indians pride themselves on being hospitable as a culture, so they would never treat a white person (a clear foreigner) this way. When I go to India, I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. so that it's less obvious that I'm a foreigner (trust me, they know). It's better to travel with a local (you probably have relatives there) and not to speak at all - even if your accent is flawless, your vernacular and fluidity is probably subtly off just enough to tip them off. Or, speak in a language that is native to another region within India (so that people think you're traveling from another region, and it will be harder for them to notice your accent). [1] It's not unusual to have private citizens step in and fill the gaps where there aren't enough public employees to do the job at hand, so yes, this was more or less this guy's entire job. Other people charge to 'watch over' your car in public street parking, etc.
- irahul 14y ago
  > I'm very careful to adjust my clothing, hairstyle, etc. That is interesting. Did you spend majority of your childhood elsewhere, because considering the diversity of India, it's pretty hard to tell.
  - arjunnarayan 14y ago
    I've been out of India for 6 years now. I instantly stand out on the streets of Bangalore as distinctly "NRI" (Non Resident Indian, and apparently a term that means that I cannot criticize anything about India ever, especially on messageboards like hacker news [see argument in the thread above between some poor hapless PIO and resident Indians].)