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Try shipping a web browser not based on Apple’s browser functionality on iOS. See how free of gatekeeping the internet is.

DANmode 1y ago
iOS is not the Internet anymore than Jitterbug is telephones.
- Nevermark 1y ago
  Nobody made such a claim. If you serve web pages, you likely serve many of your users on their Apple devices. And you can’t support features of the web for those users if Apple doesn’t want them to have those features, and prohibits browsers with other engines that do support them on their App Store, and prohibits other sources of web browsers. That’s called “gatekeeping”.
  - DANmode 1y ago
    Apple is not the Internet, stop allowing your friends, family and colleagues to treat it that way.
    - DidYaWipe 1y ago
      Meanwhile, I can't convince my dad that he doesn't need to pay for AOL anymore...
  - DidYaWipe 1y ago
    Yes you did: "Try shipping a web browser not based on Apple’s browser functionality on iOS. See how free of gatekeeping the internet is." And no, it isn't. Not supporting certain browser features does not direct traffic or even deny access. So you obviously don't know what gatekeeping is.
    - Nevermark 1y ago
      Apple is denying access to browsers that support web features they don’t support themselves. Your argument, or attempt to make an argument, somehow neglects this obvious Apple created and enforced barrier.
      - DidYaWipe 1y ago
        It "neglects" a universe of equally irrelevant observations.
        Nevermark 1y ago
        A) it’s not irrelevant at all. Perhaps you don’t do web design, or perhaps you restrict your designs to functionality Apple doesn’t actively or passively prohibit. Then you might not be aware that Apple does not support everything other browsers support. Or takes longer to support some things. The internet has two ends (at least), media source and media user. Both ends require compatible software for any connection to work or work fully. B) Of course I omit other irrelevant issues. No need for argumentative non-points. A suggestion that would help me understand you better: Instead of simply dismissing points out of hand, respond with reasoned thoughts. Maybe you have a sensible viewpoint? I have no issue learning from you. If you can communicate how Apple blocking alternate browser engines doesn’t actually block other browser’s additional web functionality, please explain your work around. I would appreciate any solution you have. So would many others. —- Apple also prohibits (via there App Store) non-browser apps based on how they use the Internet. So that’s additional gate keeping of Internet functionalit. —- Read Apple’s App Store guidelines for developers. Apple is up front and clear about all these restrictions and prohibitions. I am lost as to what you are trying to claim they allow, that they openly document they don’t allow. —- Perhaps you have confused internet functionality with Internet addresses. Indeed, Apple doesn’t block IPs. But some kind of software at both ends is still required to communicate across the Internet. And blocking specific kinds of Internet functionality at one end, effectively blocks it from both ends, on their locked down devices.
        1y ago
gilfoy 1y ago
I’m not convinced opening up the platform to Chrome skins is good for the web, we’ll just end up with one browser that much faster
- immibis 1y ago
  Are Safari skins any better? If they opened it, you could run Firefox.
  - DidYaWipe 1y ago
    But you wouldn't. Look at desktop browser share.
  - reginald78 1y ago
    In practice I think he is right unfortunately. Most people would just run Chrome and more websites would require Chrome since they could just tell Apple users to deal with it, making the mono-culture even worse.
    - DidYaWipe 1y ago
      Yep. We're going right back to "This site works best on Internet Explorer." Sad to see supposedly technically-knowledgeable people cheerleading for regression.
    - realusername 1y ago
      Less sites would do this is Safari wasn't the last non evergreen browser lagging behind everybody else. Maybe the answer from Apple should be to improve Safari instead of restricting competition.
      - gilfoy 1y ago
        I support Safari on a web app and have very rarely run into issues. It’s nothing like supporting even IE11 was.
DidYaWipe 1y ago
How is that gatekeeping? Does Webkit prevent you from visiting certain sites, or funnel you to others? No. And the browser-engine ban is being lifted; something that sounded good at first, until you realize that Chrome is already a cancer on the Web that is only held back to the dominance of Safari on mobile. Cheerleading for a total takeover by Chrome isn't smart if you think it through.

DANmode 1y ago

iOS is not the Internet anymore than Jitterbug is telephones.

Nevermark 1y ago
Nobody made such a claim. If you serve web pages, you likely serve many of your users on their Apple devices. And you can’t support features of the web for those users if Apple doesn’t want them to have those features, and prohibits browsers with other engines that do support them on their App Store, and prohibits other sources of web browsers. That’s called “gatekeeping”.
- DANmode 1y ago
  Apple is not the Internet, stop allowing your friends, family and colleagues to treat it that way.
  - DidYaWipe 1y ago
    Meanwhile, I can't convince my dad that he doesn't need to pay for AOL anymore...
- DidYaWipe 1y ago
  Yes you did: "Try shipping a web browser not based on Apple’s browser functionality on iOS. See how free of gatekeeping the internet is." And no, it isn't. Not supporting certain browser features does not direct traffic or even deny access. So you obviously don't know what gatekeeping is.
  - Nevermark 1y ago
    Apple is denying access to browsers that support web features they don’t support themselves. Your argument, or attempt to make an argument, somehow neglects this obvious Apple created and enforced barrier.
    - DidYaWipe 1y ago
      It "neglects" a universe of equally irrelevant observations.
      - Nevermark 1y ago
        A) it’s not irrelevant at all. Perhaps you don’t do web design, or perhaps you restrict your designs to functionality Apple doesn’t actively or passively prohibit. Then you might not be aware that Apple does not support everything other browsers support. Or takes longer to support some things. The internet has two ends (at least), media source and media user. Both ends require compatible software for any connection to work or work fully. B) Of course I omit other irrelevant issues. No need for argumentative non-points. A suggestion that would help me understand you better: Instead of simply dismissing points out of hand, respond with reasoned thoughts. Maybe you have a sensible viewpoint? I have no issue learning from you. If you can communicate how Apple blocking alternate browser engines doesn’t actually block other browser’s additional web functionality, please explain your work around. I would appreciate any solution you have. So would many others. —- Apple also prohibits (via there App Store) non-browser apps based on how they use the Internet. So that’s additional gate keeping of Internet functionalit. —- Read Apple’s App Store guidelines for developers. Apple is up front and clear about all these restrictions and prohibitions. I am lost as to what you are trying to claim they allow, that they openly document they don’t allow. —- Perhaps you have confused internet functionality with Internet addresses. Indeed, Apple doesn’t block IPs. But some kind of software at both ends is still required to communicate across the Internet. And blocking specific kinds of Internet functionality at one end, effectively blocks it from both ends, on their locked down devices.
        1y ago

gilfoy 1y ago

I’m not convinced opening up the platform to Chrome skins is good for the web, we’ll just end up with one browser that much faster

immibis 1y ago
Are Safari skins any better? If they opened it, you could run Firefox.
- DidYaWipe 1y ago
  But you wouldn't. Look at desktop browser share.
- reginald78 1y ago
  In practice I think he is right unfortunately. Most people would just run Chrome and more websites would require Chrome since they could just tell Apple users to deal with it, making the mono-culture even worse.
  - DidYaWipe 1y ago
    Yep. We're going right back to "This site works best on Internet Explorer." Sad to see supposedly technically-knowledgeable people cheerleading for regression.
  - realusername 1y ago
    Less sites would do this is Safari wasn't the last non evergreen browser lagging behind everybody else. Maybe the answer from Apple should be to improve Safari instead of restricting competition.
    - gilfoy 1y ago
      I support Safari on a web app and have very rarely run into issues. It’s nothing like supporting even IE11 was.

DidYaWipe 1y ago

How is that gatekeeping? Does Webkit prevent you from visiting certain sites, or funnel you to others? No. And the browser-engine ban is being lifted; something that sounded good at first, until you realize that Chrome is already a cancer on the Web that is only held back to the dominance of Safari on mobile. Cheerleading for a total takeover by Chrome isn't smart if you think it through.