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How common is air conditioning in Paris? What proportion of homes have air conditioning, either built-in or portable? How about businesses? Does Paris have suff

How common is air conditioning in Paris? What proportion of homes have air conditioning, either built-in or portable? How about businesses? Does Paris have sufficient "cooling stations", as in, large, air conditioned, public-friendly businesses like malls or community centers?

JustFinishedBSG 1y ago
Very uncommon / inexistant in private appartements except I guess if you live in a very very very upscale appartement. Installing AC is actually not allowed in many places ( because of urbanism laws) Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy.
- xoa 1y ago
  >Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy. FWIW at least in the US (and I can't imagine they wouldn't be available worldwide) there are also dual hose portable AC units which can perform fairly decently, at least far better than single hose. I needed to use one for awhile at an old office (I think it was a Whynter model) and it was effective. There are also more exotic portable units that use water as the fluid dump, but that requires having a sufficient water source that you can utilize, and probably isn't going to be doable in a residential unit in a city. We had a couple at the chemistry lab I worked in 10-15 years ago that hooked into the lab water lines.
cpa 1y ago
Fairly uncommon in homes (although I wouldn't go as far as the sibling comment that it's only for very upscale homes—I know plenty of people who are getting equipped). Because the unit has to be outside, there are many historic buildings where you can't install AC. It's less of a problem in other parts of France. Businesses open to the public and offices almost universally have AC, though, except maybe for mom and pop shops, so you definitely can go to the mall or the movies to get some fresh air.
- dustincoates 1y ago
  Some offices are better than other when it comes up AC. My last regular office would turn the AC off for the entire floor if any windows were open. But then the meeting rooms would get stuffy, and people would open windows, so there effectively was no AC. The best place to go during weather like this is actually a grocery store: Picard, which only sells frozen food and so you get the escaped chill from the freezers.
- mslansn 1y ago
  Paris has many historic buildings, but it’s not like the average Joe lives in any of those.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  Not the answer I expected. From what I understand many homes in Germany have gotten air conditioning "for free" recently. They installed heat pumps due to incentives, which can run as air conditioners in the summer.
  - chopin 1y ago
    Most heat pumps in Germany are air to water which can't be used as air conditioner. Mainly, the existing plumbing is used.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
      Why wouldn't air/water be able to cool the air? It'd just output hot water instead of hot air
      - Ekaros 1y ago
        Because either they heat radiators or under floor. Radiators would condensate a lot of water so risk of mold. And underfloor can be used for cooling, but it needs more modern control for similar issues.
globular-toast 1y ago
The trouble is if you just retrofit aircon with no other changes you actually increase the outside temperature, possibly by more than 2 degrees[0]. This has worried me since I was a child. If everyone has AC it's a race to the bottom as it gets warmer and warmer, AC has to work harder, using more and more energy etc. You end up with hellhole cities where you can't be outside at all. It's simply not sustainable. We have to do other things like having green spaces, less tarmac, shutters on windows etc. [0] https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-conditioning-making-cities-hotter https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-...
- rightbyte 1y ago
  Oh that is interesting. A greek guy I know said to me that cities 'radiated heat' some years ago and I kinda didn't believe him. Localised to alleyways etc the effect can probably be even worse.
  - mike_hearn 1y ago
    The urban heat island effect isn't to do with AC specifically. It's a mix of tarmac absorbing heat during the day then re-radiating it at night, a higher population density and a higher density of machinery. The night time re-radiation has the effect of bringing the min closer to the max readings, and so making it look as if temperatures are going up, even when max temps aren't changing much. The same effect can't be seen in rural places where there's less tarmac.
    - globular-toast 1y ago
      AC is an example of "more machinery", so it does contribute. But I would also argue that the redistribution of heat is itself harmful and AC is a horrible tragedy of the commons solution to the urban heat island problem.
AlecSchueler 1y ago
The more people install air conditioning the more energy we use, warming up the world even more, requiring even more AC units to be activated.
- rjmunro 1y ago
  In terms of energy supply, air conditioning works pretty well with solar power. Normally hot days and sunny days are very correlated. If you are worried about the local heat generated by the air conditioners themselves, there are new coatings and panels that can radiate that heat directly to space, for example https://www.skycoolsystems.com/ https://www.skycoolsystems.com/. Also just removing a few parking spaces and replacing them with green space can help at a city wide level.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    Yep, in an ideal world solar makes it not so bad and we're transitioning there. But my country (the Netherlands) is still about 50% powered by dirty sources and the energy transition is happening too slowly to avert the climate crisis, so let's not wave it away with solar promises. That's also only the operation of the things, their production and transport involves global chains of mining, shipping etc. and all the solar panels would be the same on top of that
- ponector 1y ago
  Energy used in private AC is very small fraction of total bill and has no meaningful effect on the climate. Compare with data centers running entirely off grid, powered by tens of massive gas generators.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    You're looking at the figures today, not the figures when every house in the country has to install it.
    - ponector 1y ago
DougN7 1y ago
In my experience most homes/apartments in Europe are stone/cement/brick and many were built before central heating/cooling was a thing. US homes being much newer, and built from wood, means getting air ducts in isn’t such a huge deal. So European homes often heat ultimately via hot water pipes (radiators, heated floors), etc but there isn’t a way to cool using the same mechanisms. Of course this is a huge generalization.

JustFinishedBSG 1y ago

Very uncommon / inexistant in private appartements except I guess if you live in a very very very upscale appartement. Installing AC is actually not allowed in many places ( because of urbanism laws) Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy.

xoa 1y ago
>Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy. FWIW at least in the US (and I can't imagine they wouldn't be available worldwide) there are also dual hose portable AC units which can perform fairly decently, at least far better than single hose. I needed to use one for awhile at an old office (I think it was a Whynter model) and it was effective. There are also more exotic portable units that use water as the fluid dump, but that requires having a sufficient water source that you can utilize, and probably isn't going to be doable in a residential unit in a city. We had a couple at the chemistry lab I worked in 10-15 years ago that hooked into the lab water lines.

cpa 1y ago

Fairly uncommon in homes (although I wouldn't go as far as the sibling comment that it's only for very upscale homes—I know plenty of people who are getting equipped). Because the unit has to be outside, there are many historic buildings where you can't install AC. It's less of a problem in other parts of France. Businesses open to the public and offices almost universally have AC, though, except maybe for mom and pop shops, so you definitely can go to the mall or the movies to get some fresh air.

dustincoates 1y ago
Some offices are better than other when it comes up AC. My last regular office would turn the AC off for the entire floor if any windows were open. But then the meeting rooms would get stuffy, and people would open windows, so there effectively was no AC. The best place to go during weather like this is actually a grocery store: Picard, which only sells frozen food and so you get the escaped chill from the freezers.
mslansn 1y ago
Paris has many historic buildings, but it’s not like the average Joe lives in any of those.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
Not the answer I expected. From what I understand many homes in Germany have gotten air conditioning "for free" recently. They installed heat pumps due to incentives, which can run as air conditioners in the summer.
- chopin 1y ago
  Most heat pumps in Germany are air to water which can't be used as air conditioner. Mainly, the existing plumbing is used.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    Why wouldn't air/water be able to cool the air? It'd just output hot water instead of hot air
    - Ekaros 1y ago
      Because either they heat radiators or under floor. Radiators would condensate a lot of water so risk of mold. And underfloor can be used for cooling, but it needs more modern control for similar issues.

globular-toast 1y ago

The trouble is if you just retrofit aircon with no other changes you actually increase the outside temperature, possibly by more than 2 degrees[0]. This has worried me since I was a child. If everyone has AC it's a race to the bottom as it gets warmer and warmer, AC has to work harder, using more and more energy etc. You end up with hellhole cities where you can't be outside at all. It's simply not sustainable. We have to do other things like having green spaces, less tarmac, shutters on windows etc. [0] https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-conditioning-making-cities-hotter https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-...

rightbyte 1y ago
Oh that is interesting. A greek guy I know said to me that cities 'radiated heat' some years ago and I kinda didn't believe him. Localised to alleyways etc the effect can probably be even worse.
- mike_hearn 1y ago
  The urban heat island effect isn't to do with AC specifically. It's a mix of tarmac absorbing heat during the day then re-radiating it at night, a higher population density and a higher density of machinery. The night time re-radiation has the effect of bringing the min closer to the max readings, and so making it look as if temperatures are going up, even when max temps aren't changing much. The same effect can't be seen in rural places where there's less tarmac.
  - globular-toast 1y ago
    AC is an example of "more machinery", so it does contribute. But I would also argue that the redistribution of heat is itself harmful and AC is a horrible tragedy of the commons solution to the urban heat island problem.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

The more people install air conditioning the more energy we use, warming up the world even more, requiring even more AC units to be activated.

rjmunro 1y ago
In terms of energy supply, air conditioning works pretty well with solar power. Normally hot days and sunny days are very correlated. If you are worried about the local heat generated by the air conditioners themselves, there are new coatings and panels that can radiate that heat directly to space, for example https://www.skycoolsystems.com/ https://www.skycoolsystems.com/. Also just removing a few parking spaces and replacing them with green space can help at a city wide level.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  Yep, in an ideal world solar makes it not so bad and we're transitioning there. But my country (the Netherlands) is still about 50% powered by dirty sources and the energy transition is happening too slowly to avert the climate crisis, so let's not wave it away with solar promises. That's also only the operation of the things, their production and transport involves global chains of mining, shipping etc. and all the solar panels would be the same on top of that
ponector 1y ago
Energy used in private AC is very small fraction of total bill and has no meaningful effect on the climate. Compare with data centers running entirely off grid, powered by tens of massive gas generators.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  You're looking at the figures today, not the figures when every house in the country has to install it.
  - ponector 1y ago

DougN7 1y ago

In my experience most homes/apartments in Europe are stone/cement/brick and many were built before central heating/cooling was a thing. US homes being much newer, and built from wood, means getting air ducts in isn’t such a huge deal. So European homes often heat ultimately via hot water pipes (radiators, heated floors), etc but there isn’t a way to cool using the same mechanisms. Of course this is a huge generalization.