4 ms·

Well, to get the right thing into the context in a performant way when you dealing with a huge dataset is definitely engineering.

shakna 1y ago
Engineering tends to mean "the application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends". I'm not sure there's much scientific or mathematical about guessing how a non-deterministic system will behave.
- groestl 1y ago
  Funny how you use a scientific term to discredit applied statistics. I've built useful non-deterministic systems many times and they had nothing to do with AI. Also, particle physics would like to have a word with you.
  - shakna 1y ago
    Guessing, how a non-deterministic system would behave. Statistics isn't guessing. But it is guessing when the confidence interval is unknowable and constantly shifting. We're not talking relativity, we're talking about throwing pancakes at a wall to tell if there's a person behind it.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- SonOfLilit 1y ago
  The moment you start building evaluation pipelines and running experiments to validate your ideas it stops being guessing
  - simonw 1y ago
    Right: for me that's when "prompt engineering"/"context engineering" start to earn the "engineering" suffix: when people start being methodical and applying techniques like evals.
    - passwordqwe 1y ago
      Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/397/ https://xkcd.com/397/ About if it's science or not, the difference is testing it through experiment.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - grugagag 1y ago
    It’s validated and filtered but isn’t it still guessing at the core? Should we call it validated guessing?
    - groestl 1y ago
      I think a validated guess is exactly what a prediction is.
    - shakna 1y ago
      If it's actually validated, according to rigorous principles, it's not a guess, but a system of predictions with a known confidence interval, that allows you to know if you can be sure of something. Right now, you cannot get that far. And if you happen to... Tomorrow it will be different. Predicting tides is possible. It requires enormous amounts of data and processing to be sure of it. Right now, we've got tides, but we don't have the data from the satellites. Because the owner is constantly shifting the prompt, for good reasons of their own. So we can't be confident - or we can only be so blindly.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    You've heard of science versus pseudo-science? Well.. Engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Yes, here's the analysis, backed by solid science." Pseudo-engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Probably. I'm not really sure; although I have validated the output of my Rube Goldberg machine, which is supposedly an expert in bridges, and it indicates the bridge will be fine. So we'll go with that." "prompt engineer" or "context engineer" to me sounds a lot closer to "paranormal investigator" than anything else. Even "software engineer" seems like proper engineering in comparison.
    - groestl 1y ago
      Engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Yes, with a confidence of 99.95%"

shakna 1y ago

Engineering tends to mean "the application of scientific and mathematical principles to practical ends". I'm not sure there's much scientific or mathematical about guessing how a non-deterministic system will behave.

groestl 1y ago
Funny how you use a scientific term to discredit applied statistics. I've built useful non-deterministic systems many times and they had nothing to do with AI. Also, particle physics would like to have a word with you.
- shakna 1y ago
  Guessing, how a non-deterministic system would behave. Statistics isn't guessing. But it is guessing when the confidence interval is unknowable and constantly shifting. We're not talking relativity, we're talking about throwing pancakes at a wall to tell if there's a person behind it.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
SonOfLilit 1y ago
The moment you start building evaluation pipelines and running experiments to validate your ideas it stops being guessing
- simonw 1y ago
  Right: for me that's when "prompt engineering"/"context engineering" start to earn the "engineering" suffix: when people start being methodical and applying techniques like evals.
  - passwordqwe 1y ago
    Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/397/ https://xkcd.com/397/ About if it's science or not, the difference is testing it through experiment.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- grugagag 1y ago
  It’s validated and filtered but isn’t it still guessing at the core? Should we call it validated guessing?
  - groestl 1y ago
    I think a validated guess is exactly what a prediction is.
  - shakna 1y ago
    If it's actually validated, according to rigorous principles, it's not a guess, but a system of predictions with a known confidence interval, that allows you to know if you can be sure of something. Right now, you cannot get that far. And if you happen to... Tomorrow it will be different. Predicting tides is possible. It requires enormous amounts of data and processing to be sure of it. Right now, we've got tides, but we don't have the data from the satellites. Because the owner is constantly shifting the prompt, for good reasons of their own. So we can't be confident - or we can only be so blindly.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- ModernMech 1y ago
  You've heard of science versus pseudo-science? Well.. Engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Yes, here's the analysis, backed by solid science." Pseudo-engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Probably. I'm not really sure; although I have validated the output of my Rube Goldberg machine, which is supposedly an expert in bridges, and it indicates the bridge will be fine. So we'll go with that." "prompt engineer" or "context engineer" to me sounds a lot closer to "paranormal investigator" than anything else. Even "software engineer" seems like proper engineering in comparison.
  - groestl 1y ago
    Engineering: "Will the bridge hold? Yes, with a confidence of 99.95%"