5 ms·

> There are other options out there. This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with custom

> There are other options out there. This isn't about the a consumer's right to buy a different phone. It's about a business's right to do business with customers without Apple in the middle. And it's specifically about Apple's monopoly power over those businesses. No government is going to accept that some company, Apple, gets that kind of control.

INGSOCIALITE 1y ago
so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then...
- danans 1y ago
  I routinely buy printer toner and ink from companies that are not my printer's manufacturer. Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so?
  - slater 1y ago
    > Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so? Not op, but the various "must use our genuine brand printer cartridges!" schemes that printer manufacturers have used over the past, oh, 2 decades might have something to do with it? edit to clarify: I mean the cartridges with their own chips that HP et al. tried to make happen a while back
    - fc417fc802 1y ago
      Don't forget about the refrigerators with chips in the water filter cartridges. And the barcoded coffee pods. And ...
  - jrflowers 1y ago
    https://gizmodo.com/hp-printers-drm-update-block-third-party-ink-1850211997 https://gizmodo.com/hp-printers-drm-update-block-third-party...
    - danans 1y ago
      Didn't realize HP was still up to those tricks. I've used Brother for a while and no issues with 3p ink/toner.
- lenkite 1y ago
  Are there only two printer manufacturers in the world ? Do they set a 30% tax on when you wish to print a page from a website ?
- me551ah 1y ago
  You absolutely can. Just google for your “<printer name> compatible cartridges” , and you’ll find tons that are cheaper and work just fine with your printer.
  - insane_dreamer 1y ago
    You can jailbreak your phone too
    - xandrius 1y ago
      Can you? I'd love to see a jailbreak for anything more recent that 5y ago. For the ink, I just buy it elsewhere online.
  - trollbridge 1y ago
    I would be cautious of saying "just fine"; third-party cartridges you buy from the first search result on Amazon are generally junk, and it takes quite a bit of research now to find one that will work acceptably.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  > so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then... Well, yes.
- tallanvor 1y ago
  Yes, you absolutely should be able to, and printer companies should not be allowed to try and stop it.
inkyoto 1y ago
Let's consider cars (or vehicles in general) as another mainstream example of completely vertically integrated products which comprise hardware and – now – software. Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen Group (multiple brands), Hyundai Motor Group, GM and Stellantis N.V. are the top 5 largest automakers in the world whose annual output is comparable with that of largest smartphone makers, including Apple (with the adjustment of the scale). None of the automakers allow anyone outside the vertical(s) they have built to gain a foothold in the verticals. This includes: replacement parts, mandated regular service at an official, brand-certified dealership as the condition of the warranty (for new vehicles), software updates only from the vehicle manufacturer, probably something else. No outsiders are allowed under any circumstances – if one misses a regular service at an official dealership before the warranty period has lapsed, the warranty is automatically voided. Some even extend to chipped/cracked windshields that, if replaced, will void the vehicle warranty, even though there is nothing special about a windshield today. Vehicle manufacturers are by all definitions stagegate keepers, and they impose expensive services upon their product users without giving them an alternative. Why are governments allowing this to happen?[0] [0] I know that it is because of safety regulations as the manufacturer will claim that they can only guarantee the safety of its own vehicle if it has original parts, but let's pretend for a moment that it is not an issue.
- detaro 1y ago
  At least some of your points are not allowed in the EU. Manufacturers have to provide the manuals on what constitutes a "proper" service or inspection to independent service places and have to accept their work in their warranty requirements.
- izacus 1y ago
  Pretty much none of what you mention is true. There's a huge ecosystem of 3rd party mechanics, replacement parts, services and maintenance for used cars. Even a cursory glance at the world around you quickly proves that what you wrote it just utter crock.
  - inkyoto 1y ago
    There is no need to respond if you can't hold a civilised discourse and choose to descend into directed insults instead. One can't install a Ford made shock absorber on a Honda Civic and vice versa. The time of interchangeable spare parts came to an end some time in 1980-90's where the car manufacturers started actively embracing the vertical integration. If somebody makes compatible, third party parts, it is mostly for a small selection of performance and sports cars and is not mainstream. I just replaced the chipped and cracked windshield last week, and I had to wait for 2 months for the replacement to arrive because only the original glass existed out there, with no cheap Chinese alternatives being available – they don't exist, either. And I had a continuous problem with spare parts for my previous 20 years old car that was more than 10 years out of production, and the car manufacturer stopping making them after 10 years. Lucky for me it was just zero problems, but lately wear and tear turned every other annual safety inspection into a 1-2 week long wait with the mechanic trying to hunt something down. The last time they just gave up and fudged it. My new car comes with a non-negotiable condition of first five years of regular service getting done at an authorised dealership as a condition of the car warranty. If I were to do it elsewhere, the warranty would lapse automatically. After the end of the warranty, I can take my car wherever I want. No, you can't install your own or 3rd party software in a modern car, either. This is well known and is indisputable. So all of that rings true.
Zambyte 1y ago
Exactly. People talk all the time about "third party applications", but Apple is the "third party" in these transactions.

INGSOCIALITE 1y ago

so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then...

danans 1y ago
I routinely buy printer toner and ink from companies that are not my printer's manufacturer. Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so?
- slater 1y ago
  > Where did you get the idea that it isn't possible to do so? Not op, but the various "must use our genuine brand printer cartridges!" schemes that printer manufacturers have used over the past, oh, 2 decades might have something to do with it? edit to clarify: I mean the cartridges with their own chips that HP et al. tried to make happen a while back
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    Don't forget about the refrigerators with chips in the water filter cartridges. And the barcoded coffee pods. And ...
- jrflowers 1y ago
  https://gizmodo.com/hp-printers-drm-update-block-third-party-ink-1850211997 https://gizmodo.com/hp-printers-drm-update-block-third-party...
  - danans 1y ago
    Didn't realize HP was still up to those tricks. I've used Brother for a while and no issues with 3p ink/toner.
lenkite 1y ago
Are there only two printer manufacturers in the world ? Do they set a 30% tax on when you wish to print a page from a website ?
me551ah 1y ago
You absolutely can. Just google for your “<printer name> compatible cartridges” , and you’ll find tons that are cheaper and work just fine with your printer.
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  You can jailbreak your phone too
  - xandrius 1y ago
    Can you? I'd love to see a jailbreak for anything more recent that 5y ago. For the ink, I just buy it elsewhere online.
- trollbridge 1y ago
  I would be cautious of saying "just fine"; third-party cartridges you buy from the first search result on Amazon are generally junk, and it takes quite a bit of research now to find one that will work acceptably.
AnthonyMouse 1y ago
> so then i should be able to use any ink in my printer then... Well, yes.
tallanvor 1y ago
Yes, you absolutely should be able to, and printer companies should not be allowed to try and stop it.

inkyoto 1y ago

Let's consider cars (or vehicles in general) as another mainstream example of completely vertically integrated products which comprise hardware and – now – software. Toyota Motor Corp., Volkswagen Group (multiple brands), Hyundai Motor Group, GM and Stellantis N.V. are the top 5 largest automakers in the world whose annual output is comparable with that of largest smartphone makers, including Apple (with the adjustment of the scale). None of the automakers allow anyone outside the vertical(s) they have built to gain a foothold in the verticals. This includes: replacement parts, mandated regular service at an official, brand-certified dealership as the condition of the warranty (for new vehicles), software updates only from the vehicle manufacturer, probably something else. No outsiders are allowed under any circumstances – if one misses a regular service at an official dealership before the warranty period has lapsed, the warranty is automatically voided. Some even extend to chipped/cracked windshields that, if replaced, will void the vehicle warranty, even though there is nothing special about a windshield today. Vehicle manufacturers are by all definitions stagegate keepers, and they impose expensive services upon their product users without giving them an alternative. Why are governments allowing this to happen?[0] [0] I know that it is because of safety regulations as the manufacturer will claim that they can only guarantee the safety of its own vehicle if it has original parts, but let's pretend for a moment that it is not an issue.

detaro 1y ago
At least some of your points are not allowed in the EU. Manufacturers have to provide the manuals on what constitutes a "proper" service or inspection to independent service places and have to accept their work in their warranty requirements.
izacus 1y ago
Pretty much none of what you mention is true. There's a huge ecosystem of 3rd party mechanics, replacement parts, services and maintenance for used cars. Even a cursory glance at the world around you quickly proves that what you wrote it just utter crock.
- inkyoto 1y ago
  There is no need to respond if you can't hold a civilised discourse and choose to descend into directed insults instead. One can't install a Ford made shock absorber on a Honda Civic and vice versa. The time of interchangeable spare parts came to an end some time in 1980-90's where the car manufacturers started actively embracing the vertical integration. If somebody makes compatible, third party parts, it is mostly for a small selection of performance and sports cars and is not mainstream. I just replaced the chipped and cracked windshield last week, and I had to wait for 2 months for the replacement to arrive because only the original glass existed out there, with no cheap Chinese alternatives being available – they don't exist, either. And I had a continuous problem with spare parts for my previous 20 years old car that was more than 10 years out of production, and the car manufacturer stopping making them after 10 years. Lucky for me it was just zero problems, but lately wear and tear turned every other annual safety inspection into a 1-2 week long wait with the mechanic trying to hunt something down. The last time they just gave up and fudged it. My new car comes with a non-negotiable condition of first five years of regular service getting done at an authorised dealership as a condition of the car warranty. If I were to do it elsewhere, the warranty would lapse automatically. After the end of the warranty, I can take my car wherever I want. No, you can't install your own or 3rd party software in a modern car, either. This is well known and is indisputable. So all of that rings true.

Zambyte 1y ago

Exactly. People talk all the time about "third party applications", but Apple is the "third party" in these transactions.