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> The eugenics example is even worse. In the 1930s, people were absolutely certain eugenics was the best thing since sliced bread, then Hitler showed the world

> The eugenics example is even worse. In the 1930s, people were absolutely certain eugenics was the best thing since sliced bread, then Hitler showed the world how bad that could go. To deny "Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it" as a guiding principle seems rather hubristic to me. Erm, well, what we saw was that using social programs to engage in eugenics was a problem. Allowing individuals to change their genetic destiny, or allowing parents to try and use genetics to reduce the risk of disease is significantly different. Of course, the stronger argument against eugenics is that narrowing the human genepool is dangerous. Genetic diversity is strength across successive generations. Then again, I'm not someone with a genetic disease, or the parent of a child with one, so I don't feel that I have any authority to say what should or should not be done. I'll limit myself to trying to make people aware of the issue. > "Evolutionary psychology is sexist!" is a different beast: some people have decided, not through science, but though politics, that material differences between men and women (or the races for that matter) doesn't exist. Thus science finding otherwise is unacceptable. Of course it's a bad argument to reject science because it doesn't fit your political agenda. Evolutionary psychology is a valid science, however, and this is an enormous however, untrained individuals attempting to use it to enforce social norms is absolutely 100% sexist. The arc of society is to eclipse our biology. Attempting to enforce it because of misunderstandings, willful or otherwise, of a novel field of science concerned primarily with our past is something I find personally disgusting.

rmc 14y ago
however, and this is an enormous however, untrained individuals attempting to use it to enforce social norms is absolutely 100% sexist. Here here. There are loads of people who "know the truth, and are jufdt trying to find the evidence" to support their beliefs about gender. This isn't real science, but cargo cult, pseduoscience for political goals. Don't try to mask your politics in sciencey sounding arguments.
127 14y ago
>Evolutionary psychology is a valid science, however, and this is an enormous however, untrained individuals attempting to use it to enforce social norms is absolutely 100% sexist. I personally believe that sexism is not immediately a negative thing, but neutral. Sex based discrimination is useful and can hold a lot of value in determining our next course of action. Using sexism as a moral axiom is illogical. What's worse, it's censoring free thought through intimidation of social irrelevance. Logic should be followed through without unnecessary moral burden. Observations should be made without the need to justify oneself purely for making them. Just despairing with how the word sexism is conflated with so many other things in the internet rhetoric. Maybe this is more of an American thing.
- DannoHung 14y ago
  Sexism implies discrimination. Every single word in your statement could substitute racism or ageism for sexism and it wouldn't make anything you're saying any more meaningful. Does racism also mean something else in the dialect of English you speak?
  - 127 14y ago
    I don't see conflating racism, sexism and ageism very useful. They all have different causes and validity, depending on context. Does attaching -ism after the word "nerd" make nerds suddenly an oppressed group? There's nothing wrong with discrimination as such. Dividing two things into separate compartments gives us the ability to process their differences instead of trying to fit two thing together that do not go together, again, depending on context. But discrimination definitely is a very useful mental tool. A word about racism. I see it mostly as an in-built defense tactic for territory and one's own genetic line. Is this outdated? Perhaps. Does this have anything to do with sexism? Not really that I can see. Other than the -ism at the end.
- rmc 14y ago
  Yes, I suppose what you are saying is correct, but what you're talking about is not the main form of sexism in modern cultures. It is nearly always is used to keep women down, merely because they are women. Likewise for race. Often people who talk about evo psych are trying to justify why its ok to forcibly have sex with someone who is wearing a skirt of some defined length. We haven't gotten rid of the "bad sexism" stuff yet, so you're theoretical sexism free utopia is purely theoretical at the moment.

rmc 14y ago

however, and this is an enormous however, untrained individuals attempting to use it to enforce social norms is absolutely 100% sexist. Here here. There are loads of people who "know the truth, and are jufdt trying to find the evidence" to support their beliefs about gender. This isn't real science, but cargo cult, pseduoscience for political goals. Don't try to mask your politics in sciencey sounding arguments.

127 14y ago

>Evolutionary psychology is a valid science, however, and this is an enormous however, untrained individuals attempting to use it to enforce social norms is absolutely 100% sexist. I personally believe that sexism is not immediately a negative thing, but neutral. Sex based discrimination is useful and can hold a lot of value in determining our next course of action. Using sexism as a moral axiom is illogical. What's worse, it's censoring free thought through intimidation of social irrelevance. Logic should be followed through without unnecessary moral burden. Observations should be made without the need to justify oneself purely for making them. Just despairing with how the word sexism is conflated with so many other things in the internet rhetoric. Maybe this is more of an American thing.

DannoHung 14y ago
Sexism implies discrimination. Every single word in your statement could substitute racism or ageism for sexism and it wouldn't make anything you're saying any more meaningful. Does racism also mean something else in the dialect of English you speak?
- 127 14y ago
  I don't see conflating racism, sexism and ageism very useful. They all have different causes and validity, depending on context. Does attaching -ism after the word "nerd" make nerds suddenly an oppressed group? There's nothing wrong with discrimination as such. Dividing two things into separate compartments gives us the ability to process their differences instead of trying to fit two thing together that do not go together, again, depending on context. But discrimination definitely is a very useful mental tool. A word about racism. I see it mostly as an in-built defense tactic for territory and one's own genetic line. Is this outdated? Perhaps. Does this have anything to do with sexism? Not really that I can see. Other than the -ism at the end.
rmc 14y ago
Yes, I suppose what you are saying is correct, but what you're talking about is not the main form of sexism in modern cultures. It is nearly always is used to keep women down, merely because they are women. Likewise for race. Often people who talk about evo psych are trying to justify why its ok to forcibly have sex with someone who is wearing a skirt of some defined length. We haven't gotten rid of the "bad sexism" stuff yet, so you're theoretical sexism free utopia is purely theoretical at the moment.