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I don't think we should be adding toxins to the water supply for any reason. I don't think exposing every living person to toxins because some people don't care

I don't think we should be adding toxins to the water supply for any reason. I don't think exposing every living person to toxins because some people don't care to brush their teeth is very good logic. How do you know some poorly run, underfunded water department doesn't have a malfunctioning fluoride mixer until after you have brain damage from it? No I don't support RFK lunatic BS. I just don't like the idea of any potential toxin being blanked added to the population intentionally. Something like that should have lots of skepticism and require massive amounts of proof that it is worth the possible downsides. The government can barely be trusted to operate intelligently when human lives are not at stake.

ceejayoz 1y ago
> I don't think we should be adding toxins to the water supply for any reason. What, no chlorine to kill bacteria? Water is a toxin! https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/water-intoxication https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/water-intoxic... > How do you know some poorly run, underfunded water department doesn't have a malfunctioning fluoride mixer until after you have brain damage from it? Regular daily testing (and sometimes hourly), as mandated by law. https://www.cityofrochester.gov/2024-water-quality-report https://www.cityofrochester.gov/2024-water-quality-report "To ensure optimal dental protection, the State Department of Health requires that we monitor fluoride levels on a daily basis." Hell, we do daily testing of the beach water in my state, let alone the drinking supply. They close them if stuff like E. coli is too high.
- citizenpaul 1y ago
  I filter chlorine from all my home water. I just don't like it's smell taste. Cholrine has a toxic PPM of something like 400 Floride has a toxic PPM of like 2. Its not the same. I've seen numerous reports over the years where poor area water departments have had malfunctioning equipment for many years before anyone noticed. Despite all these "required" tests. After all if the watchers don't care who watches them? How about if the watchers just phone it in?
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > Cholrine has a toxic PPM of something like 400 Floride has a toxic PPM of like 2. It’s not the same. So what? That’s why the EPA sets a maximum level of both, independently. > I've seen numerous reports over the years where poor area water departments have had malfunctioning equipment for many years before anyone noticed. Not every bit of equipment is safety critical. If you’d like we can discuss a specific case.
devmor 1y ago
I’d like to ask you to do a mental exercise, sincerely. Whenever you find yourself using the word “toxin”, define it for yourself. What is a toxin, in specific terms? This is a nebulous term that is most frequently used by quacks and snake oil salesmen to make a claim of health that can never be proven or disproven. I’m not asking you for a reply to me, you can keep it for yourself, but I think if you do this, you’ll find yourself questioning whether or not you are propagating pseudoscience and it will lead you to better rational thought.
- citizenpaul 1y ago
  I know some of the nuances of "toxin" for instance water has a toxicity limit. Its not an toxic/not toxic line. I'm not saying floride is bad/good. Just that I don't trust the government and its often very low quality workers to properly dispense a chemical with tight toxicity tolerances. Especially when it's purpose is basically to benifit people whom don't have the desire to take care of themselves. Why do I have to be exposed to something unwillingly because other people are lazy?
  - devmor 1y ago
    > I don't trust the government and its often very low quality workers to properly dispense a chemical with tight toxicity tolerances. I have never particularly heard anyone regard civil engineers as "low quality workers" - but you don't have to trust. Water fluoridation levels can be measured for about $20 with a mail in kit, or you could even get a specialized interferometer for a couple hundred. It should be noted that we already measure these levels in municipal water facilities though. > Especially when it's purpose is basically to benifit people whom don't have the desire to take care of themselves. Why do I have to be exposed to something unwillingly because other people are lazy? The primary benefit of water fluoridation is the dental health of developing children and the destitute poor. I don't really want to get into an ideological argument on hacker news, suffice to say "you should care about other people because that is how a society functions." Case in point, fluoride in my water would make my medication stop working. I still support it in the water I can't even drink without filtering because it's a net benefit to society that ultimately impacts me positively in numerous ways.

ceejayoz 1y ago

> I don't think we should be adding toxins to the water supply for any reason. What, no chlorine to kill bacteria? Water is a toxin! https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/water-intoxication https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/water-intoxic... > How do you know some poorly run, underfunded water department doesn't have a malfunctioning fluoride mixer until after you have brain damage from it? Regular daily testing (and sometimes hourly), as mandated by law. https://www.cityofrochester.gov/2024-water-quality-report https://www.cityofrochester.gov/2024-water-quality-report "To ensure optimal dental protection, the State Department of Health requires that we monitor fluoride levels on a daily basis." Hell, we do daily testing of the beach water in my state, let alone the drinking supply. They close them if stuff like E. coli is too high.

citizenpaul 1y ago
I filter chlorine from all my home water. I just don't like it's smell taste. Cholrine has a toxic PPM of something like 400 Floride has a toxic PPM of like 2. Its not the same. I've seen numerous reports over the years where poor area water departments have had malfunctioning equipment for many years before anyone noticed. Despite all these "required" tests. After all if the watchers don't care who watches them? How about if the watchers just phone it in?
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > Cholrine has a toxic PPM of something like 400 Floride has a toxic PPM of like 2. It’s not the same. So what? That’s why the EPA sets a maximum level of both, independently. > I've seen numerous reports over the years where poor area water departments have had malfunctioning equipment for many years before anyone noticed. Not every bit of equipment is safety critical. If you’d like we can discuss a specific case.

devmor 1y ago

I’d like to ask you to do a mental exercise, sincerely. Whenever you find yourself using the word “toxin”, define it for yourself. What is a toxin, in specific terms? This is a nebulous term that is most frequently used by quacks and snake oil salesmen to make a claim of health that can never be proven or disproven. I’m not asking you for a reply to me, you can keep it for yourself, but I think if you do this, you’ll find yourself questioning whether or not you are propagating pseudoscience and it will lead you to better rational thought.

citizenpaul 1y ago
I know some of the nuances of "toxin" for instance water has a toxicity limit. Its not an toxic/not toxic line. I'm not saying floride is bad/good. Just that I don't trust the government and its often very low quality workers to properly dispense a chemical with tight toxicity tolerances. Especially when it's purpose is basically to benifit people whom don't have the desire to take care of themselves. Why do I have to be exposed to something unwillingly because other people are lazy?
- devmor 1y ago
  > I don't trust the government and its often very low quality workers to properly dispense a chemical with tight toxicity tolerances. I have never particularly heard anyone regard civil engineers as "low quality workers" - but you don't have to trust. Water fluoridation levels can be measured for about $20 with a mail in kit, or you could even get a specialized interferometer for a couple hundred. It should be noted that we already measure these levels in municipal water facilities though. > Especially when it's purpose is basically to benifit people whom don't have the desire to take care of themselves. Why do I have to be exposed to something unwillingly because other people are lazy? The primary benefit of water fluoridation is the dental health of developing children and the destitute poor. I don't really want to get into an ideological argument on hacker news, suffice to say "you should care about other people because that is how a society functions." Case in point, fluoride in my water would make my medication stop working. I still support it in the water I can't even drink without filtering because it's a net benefit to society that ultimately impacts me positively in numerous ways.