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That's the geopolitical advantage of being the world's manufacturing hub. Foresight is required when dealing with such entities, not hindsight. If my electric

That's the geopolitical advantage of being the world's manufacturing hub. Foresight is required when dealing with such entities, not hindsight. If my electric car comes in at 1/4th the price of an American built one, so be it. The tradeoff here is that in countries that aren't engulfed by rent-seeking capitalists who only answer to themselves, countries like China have a policy goal and will make sure the state utilizes the private sector to meet the goal. For example, Mr. Musk could easily take some of that $450 billion net worth of his and make his cars considerably cheaper. He has taken enormous subsidies and kept his cars expensive. In China, the state would not let someone with that amount of capital take subsidies, and most certainly wouldn't allow them to bribe the government with the government's money.

infecto 1y ago
Kind of a strange take. I think your thoughts derailed after the first sentence. Advantage? I guess but it’s also cartel like behavior that the rest of the world mostly avoids hence when selective tariffs are often put on China in those areas.
- NickC25 1y ago
  Hardly a strange take IMO. We've (the west) effectively encouraged this sort of behavior. OUTSOURCE IT ALL TO CHINA! Our corporations and shareholders have most certainly reaped the benefits from this. Our politicians have made a lot of money this way, too. Lots of people have deliberately turned a blind eye to this sort of behavior and didn't think about the long term ramifications of pushing everything to be built in China. Call it cartel like behavior, fine. China is merely playing the hand it has been dealt and looking out for itself and the survival of its economy and political apparatus. Trade is one way to do so, another is technological progress. We've subsidized capitalists taking the risk to develop this tech. China has bypassed the ownership class and gone straight to the manufacturers. Some of those capitalists have enriched themselves when they should have passed those costs off to make their products cheaper to stay competitive - that's the whole point of subsidies. Instead, one of those capitalists chose to instead take the subsidies, keep his cars expensive, and make himself the wealthiest person on earth. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
  - infecto 1y ago
    You’re not wrong about Western complicity, but let’s not pretend that “playing the hand you’re dealt” means “forming state-guided monopolies and dumping at a loss to wipe out global competitors.” That’s not just survival, that’s industrial warfare with Chinese characteristics. And yeah, we subsidized Musk, dumb move but the answer isn’t to copy a system where the state decides who wins, loses, and what the price tag is. That’s not market efficiency, it’s command capitalism with a smile. Don’t hate the game? Buddy, the game is rigged. China just rigged it better.
    - immibis 1y ago
      America has been doing the same thing, but in the Internet tech sector rather than physical manufacturing. Is that bad too?

infecto 1y ago

Kind of a strange take. I think your thoughts derailed after the first sentence. Advantage? I guess but it’s also cartel like behavior that the rest of the world mostly avoids hence when selective tariffs are often put on China in those areas.

NickC25 1y ago
Hardly a strange take IMO. We've (the west) effectively encouraged this sort of behavior. OUTSOURCE IT ALL TO CHINA! Our corporations and shareholders have most certainly reaped the benefits from this. Our politicians have made a lot of money this way, too. Lots of people have deliberately turned a blind eye to this sort of behavior and didn't think about the long term ramifications of pushing everything to be built in China. Call it cartel like behavior, fine. China is merely playing the hand it has been dealt and looking out for itself and the survival of its economy and political apparatus. Trade is one way to do so, another is technological progress. We've subsidized capitalists taking the risk to develop this tech. China has bypassed the ownership class and gone straight to the manufacturers. Some of those capitalists have enriched themselves when they should have passed those costs off to make their products cheaper to stay competitive - that's the whole point of subsidies. Instead, one of those capitalists chose to instead take the subsidies, keep his cars expensive, and make himself the wealthiest person on earth. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
- infecto 1y ago
  You’re not wrong about Western complicity, but let’s not pretend that “playing the hand you’re dealt” means “forming state-guided monopolies and dumping at a loss to wipe out global competitors.” That’s not just survival, that’s industrial warfare with Chinese characteristics. And yeah, we subsidized Musk, dumb move but the answer isn’t to copy a system where the state decides who wins, loses, and what the price tag is. That’s not market efficiency, it’s command capitalism with a smile. Don’t hate the game? Buddy, the game is rigged. China just rigged it better.
  - immibis 1y ago
    America has been doing the same thing, but in the Internet tech sector rather than physical manufacturing. Is that bad too?