3 ms·

Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars https://www.m

Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars That said, we picked up one of the cars on this list for well under $15,000 in 2010. (And it's still going strong! Never needed a major repair.) Which doesn't really mean anything, just throwing out yet another anecdote to highlight that nobody's presented any information that actually supports or contradicts the major premise that cars are getting less affordable. Segmenting your data by picking arbitrary cutoffs (like $25,000) has its own chapter in the classic book How to Lie With Statistics.

conductr 1y ago
Everything that has increased by more than income growth has gotten less affordable. Thankfully it seems to be happening to all the most expensive things housing, vehicles, education, healthcare, etc (/s incase not obvious)
csomar 1y ago
> Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars I need a source for the year 2005 not 2025. Of course, it is easier to have a source for 2025.
- tlogan 1y ago
  Here is 2005 list: - Chevrolet Aveo – Starting at $9,455 - Kia Rio – Starting at $10,570 - Hyundai Accent – Starting at $10,999 - Toyota Echo – Starting at $11,110 - Ford Focus ZX3 – Starting at $13,365 - Chevrolet Cavalier – Starting at $13,405 - Chrysler PT Cruiser – Starting at $13,995 - Dodge Neon SXT – Starting at $14,195 - Pontiac Sunfire – Starting at $14,200 see: https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005 https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005 -Saturn Ion – Starting at $14,430 - see https://www.kbb.com/saturn/ion/2005 https://www.kbb.com/saturn/ion/2005 It is based on this links: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-cars-under-15000.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-cars-under... This is article from 2005 (at least metadata says that). The prices are verified via kbb.com which has original MSRP for all used cars.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    That's a list of "top 10 cars under $15k". It's not all cars under $15k, just the best 10 among the multitude.
    - kodt 1y ago
      Yeah I know you could get a basic model Corolla for around $12k in 2006 or so.
      - tlogan 1y ago
        This does not match the KBB.com: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/ https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/ I’m just saying that I 100% understand that you think it was “cheaper before” but there is no data to show that. I honestly feel the same. Toyota Corolla was 13k in 2000: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2000 https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2000 - 25 years ago. The core of my argument is this: today’s news manipulates perception by playing on emotions, which ultimately distorts the truth. This article isn’t overly political, which makes it easier for us to debate without resorting to calling each other Nazis or communists. But when it comes to politics, distortion of truth happens all the time.
        margalabargala 1y ago
        Bold of you to talk about distortion of truth when you are the main perpetrator of it in this thread. Your claim of "only 10 models under $15k in 2005" is patently false, based on logic where the "Forbes 30 under 30" list is evidence that only 30 people exist younger than 30. So yeah I guess your core argument is true, but you demonstrated by perpetuating it...
        tlogan 1y ago
        Please find a car which is missing. I was unable to find a single one. And I also made the mistake with the list for 2025: there are 20 cars less than 25k in 2025. See? You found problem with 2005 but you happily ignored that fact that I missed cars from 2025. Why? Because it fits your world view. And that is how marketing works: you are convinced that cars are getting more expensive and no amount of data will change your view. And posts on hubspot like this are paid by companies not making sub-$25k cars.

conductr 1y ago

Everything that has increased by more than income growth has gotten less affordable. Thankfully it seems to be happening to all the most expensive things housing, vehicles, education, healthcare, etc (/s incase not obvious)

csomar 1y ago

> Not OP, but this seems like a decent source for the claim. It lists 12 cars under $25K MSRP: https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars https://www.motortrend.com/features/cheapest-new-cars I need a source for the year 2005 not 2025. Of course, it is easier to have a source for 2025.

tlogan 1y ago
Here is 2005 list: - Chevrolet Aveo – Starting at $9,455 - Kia Rio – Starting at $10,570 - Hyundai Accent – Starting at $10,999 - Toyota Echo – Starting at $11,110 - Ford Focus ZX3 – Starting at $13,365 - Chevrolet Cavalier – Starting at $13,405 - Chrysler PT Cruiser – Starting at $13,995 - Dodge Neon SXT – Starting at $14,195 - Pontiac Sunfire – Starting at $14,200 see: https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005 https://www.kbb.com/pontiac/sunfire/2005 -Saturn Ion – Starting at $14,430 - see https://www.kbb.com/saturn/ion/2005 https://www.kbb.com/saturn/ion/2005 It is based on this links: https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-cars-under-15000.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/top-10-cars-under... This is article from 2005 (at least metadata says that). The prices are verified via kbb.com which has original MSRP for all used cars.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  That's a list of "top 10 cars under $15k". It's not all cars under $15k, just the best 10 among the multitude.
  - kodt 1y ago
    Yeah I know you could get a basic model Corolla for around $12k in 2006 or so.
    - tlogan 1y ago
      This does not match the KBB.com: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/ https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2005/ I’m just saying that I 100% understand that you think it was “cheaper before” but there is no data to show that. I honestly feel the same. Toyota Corolla was 13k in 2000: https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2000 https://www.kbb.com/toyota/corolla/2000 - 25 years ago. The core of my argument is this: today’s news manipulates perception by playing on emotions, which ultimately distorts the truth. This article isn’t overly political, which makes it easier for us to debate without resorting to calling each other Nazis or communists. But when it comes to politics, distortion of truth happens all the time.
      - margalabargala 1y ago
        Bold of you to talk about distortion of truth when you are the main perpetrator of it in this thread. Your claim of "only 10 models under $15k in 2005" is patently false, based on logic where the "Forbes 30 under 30" list is evidence that only 30 people exist younger than 30. So yeah I guess your core argument is true, but you demonstrated by perpetuating it...
        tlogan 1y ago
        Please find a car which is missing. I was unable to find a single one. And I also made the mistake with the list for 2025: there are 20 cars less than 25k in 2025. See? You found problem with 2005 but you happily ignored that fact that I missed cars from 2025. Why? Because it fits your world view. And that is how marketing works: you are convinced that cars are getting more expensive and no amount of data will change your view. And posts on hubspot like this are paid by companies not making sub-$25k cars.