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Capital is a group of people. It is a few shared dynasties, people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth, the folks running private equity, the shrinking

Capital is a group of people. It is a few shared dynasties, people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth, the folks running private equity, the shrinking number of real estate developers that own a larger and larger share of all apartments. Your line about 'just start a business' is something people say but never actually execute on themselves. Try making a store to compete with Amazon, a or a grocer to compete with our consolidated giants. They can and will use the economy of massive scale they have to crush your business into oblivion, taking a short term loss to maintain a death grip on the market That's capital.

gruez 1y ago
>Capital is a group of people. It is a few shared dynasties, people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth, the folks running private equity, the shrinking number of real estate developers that own a larger and larger share of all apartments. What about the average American with pensions and 401ks that are invested in stocks? Or the "FIRE" crowd on reddit with 6 figures invested in Vanguard ETFs? Is "Capital" just a slur to be used against owners of capital you don't like, or you think have too much?
- triceratops 1y ago
  > What about the average American with pensions and 401ks that are invested in stocks? Or the "FIRE" crowd on reddit with 6 figures invested in Vanguard ETFs? Own capital or be owned by those who do. That's how it works. We're trapped in a game that's taking the world to a bad place, but which we're doing really well at. Pensions and 401ks are today's "people taking care of elders when they're too old to work" - an idea as old as humanity. It's just abstracted through markets.
  - gruez 1y ago
    >Own capital or be owned by those who do. That's how it works. You didn't answer the question. Are those people "captial" or not? If it's just "own capital", then most Americans are "capital" because they at least have some sort of 401k or pension, but I suspect you wouldn't put them in the same group as "people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth" or whatever.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      > I suspect you wouldn't put them in the same group as "people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth" or whatever. 59% of Americans have a 401k or other retirement account.[1] They accumulate capital so they don't need to work when they're old. A small fraction of them are the "Reddit FIRE" types. The top 1% own more than 50% of all equity in private and public companies.[2] They and their kids and maybe grandkids don't need to work to live. Would you put both in the same group? Other than "owns productive assets" they don't have that much in common. 1. https://news.gallup.com/poll/691202/percentage-americans-retirement-savings-account.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/691202/percentage-americans-ret... 2. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net-worth-of-the-1.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net...
      - gruez 1y ago
        From my original comment: >Is "Capital" just a slur to be used against owners of capital you don't like, or you think have too much?
        triceratops 1y ago
        I wasn't aware it was a "slur" as much as it was a statement of fact. A tiny minority has disproportionate control over our economy and everyone else's lives. Depending on your ideological leanings you may find that ok or not ok. Others (retirement savers) using the same tools as that minority doesn't make them the same as that minority. Degree of control matters. That's what I was responding to. "You know the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire? About a billion dollars"
      - mistrial9 1y ago
        > 59% of Americans have a 401k or other retirement account self-reported ? also, substantial numbers of adult people fall into various classifications that definitely do not have such a thing. Are those not counted at all ? also, how is it so precise with no caveats, callouts or error bars ?! BS
- fzeroracer 1y ago
  I have a 401k and a decent amount invested in the stock market. I have almost no power because my capital cannot be meaningfully exercised in the same way other groups of capital can. My influence (as a middle class software engineer) has dwindled over the past 30+ years or so because more and more power (ie, capital) is being taken from the lower classes and being distributed to fewer hands at the upper end of society.

gruez 1y ago

>Capital is a group of people. It is a few shared dynasties, people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth, the folks running private equity, the shrinking number of real estate developers that own a larger and larger share of all apartments. What about the average American with pensions and 401ks that are invested in stocks? Or the "FIRE" crowd on reddit with 6 figures invested in Vanguard ETFs? Is "Capital" just a slur to be used against owners of capital you don't like, or you think have too much?

triceratops 1y ago
> What about the average American with pensions and 401ks that are invested in stocks? Or the "FIRE" crowd on reddit with 6 figures invested in Vanguard ETFs? Own capital or be owned by those who do. That's how it works. We're trapped in a game that's taking the world to a bad place, but which we're doing really well at. Pensions and 401ks are today's "people taking care of elders when they're too old to work" - an idea as old as humanity. It's just abstracted through markets.
- gruez 1y ago
  >Own capital or be owned by those who do. That's how it works. You didn't answer the question. Are those people "captial" or not? If it's just "own capital", then most Americans are "capital" because they at least have some sort of 401k or pension, but I suspect you wouldn't put them in the same group as "people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth" or whatever.
  - triceratops 1y ago
    > I suspect you wouldn't put them in the same group as "people who have hoovered up the majority of wealth" or whatever. 59% of Americans have a 401k or other retirement account.[1] They accumulate capital so they don't need to work when they're old. A small fraction of them are the "Reddit FIRE" types. The top 1% own more than 50% of all equity in private and public companies.[2] They and their kids and maybe grandkids don't need to work to live. Would you put both in the same group? Other than "owns productive assets" they don't have that much in common. 1. https://news.gallup.com/poll/691202/percentage-americans-retirement-savings-account.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/691202/percentage-americans-ret... 2. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net-worth-of-the-1.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/average-net...
    - gruez 1y ago
      From my original comment: >Is "Capital" just a slur to be used against owners of capital you don't like, or you think have too much?
      - triceratops 1y ago
        I wasn't aware it was a "slur" as much as it was a statement of fact. A tiny minority has disproportionate control over our economy and everyone else's lives. Depending on your ideological leanings you may find that ok or not ok. Others (retirement savers) using the same tools as that minority doesn't make them the same as that minority. Degree of control matters. That's what I was responding to. "You know the difference between a millionaire and a billionaire? About a billion dollars"
    - mistrial9 1y ago
      > 59% of Americans have a 401k or other retirement account self-reported ? also, substantial numbers of adult people fall into various classifications that definitely do not have such a thing. Are those not counted at all ? also, how is it so precise with no caveats, callouts or error bars ?! BS
fzeroracer 1y ago
I have a 401k and a decent amount invested in the stock market. I have almost no power because my capital cannot be meaningfully exercised in the same way other groups of capital can. My influence (as a middle class software engineer) has dwindled over the past 30+ years or so because more and more power (ie, capital) is being taken from the lower classes and being distributed to fewer hands at the upper end of society.