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It's not weird or creepy to follow the politics of another country, especially when it has deep political implications in your own country. For example, my cou

It's not weird or creepy to follow the politics of another country, especially when it has deep political implications in your own country. For example, my country routes internet traffic to Australia solely to take advantage of its pro-surveillance laws while undermining my rights as a US citizen to resist unauthorized search and seizure. Australia is a global player in the intelligence community and that should not be ignored. Furthermore, the great barrier reef is of global importance, but Australia's government often works against the UN's preservation efforts and doesn't take preservation or climate change seriously. That is something that should alarm someone from any country. So let's dispense with the pejoratives, and dispense with the bias over protests I had no part in and shouldn't be associated with just because I'm American. This is a big country, with lots of opinions.

josephg 1y ago
> For example, my country routes internet traffic to Australia solely to take advantage of its pro-surveillance laws while undermining my rights as a US citizen Then sort out the laws in your country. As an Australian citizen, I can't "fix" US politics. I can't and I wouldn't want to try - because its not any of my business. If the US government really wants to infringe on your american civil liberties, there's nothing I - or any other Australian - can do to stop them. (Well other than meddling in your elections or invading - and I don't think anybody wants that). Its up to you and your countrymen. Nobody else can vote. As for the environment and the great barrier reef - politically I totally agree with you. Its an unfolding, unforced tragedy. But you've also gotta understand, if your president says he wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and do whats best today for americans, it weakens your moral standing when you lecture others about doing the same. You can't have it both ways.
- soulofmischief 1y ago
  > As an Australian citizen, I can't "fix" US politics. I can't and I wouldn't want to try That's great, but I didn't ask you to, and I am pretty confused where you got this notion that I was. > if your president says he wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and do whats best today for americans, it weakens your moral standing when you lecture others about doing the same. It absolutely does not weaken my moral standing. I did not vote for the traitors currently making a farce of my country. That has absolutely zero to do with what I've mentioned here. I'm really not sure the purpose of your comments or what value you're attempting to add to this thread.
  - josephg 1y ago
    Fair point. I'm projecting a bit much, because I'm kinda pissed off about how much americans assume everything everywhere is about america and should be judged by american values. I agree that its not weird or creepy to follow whats going on in other countries. But you hit a nerve when you said this upthread: "Australia is such a draconian nanny state, hell-bent on surveillance and authoritarian control" because we require ID to get a phone number. It would be cheap to shoot back with criticisms of the US. But that would be pointless. So, I think its a more interesting conversation to talk about where the wall should be here. How do we talk here, between our countries? > It absolutely does not weaken my moral standing. I did not vote for the traitors currently making a farce of my country. I don't agree. I don't think your voting habits in particular give you enough distance to absolve you entirely for anything your leader does internationally. I see it as an API boundary question. Imagine if your company ships a buggy product. From inside the organisation, it's legitimate to say "The bug is not my fault!". But from the outside, nobody cares. The whole organisation is collectively responsible for their successes and failures. The reputation of the whole organisation is elevated when they put out good products. And that brand reputation suffers when they put out bad products. I don't care which engineer in particular implemented a bug on my iphone. I care that my iphone is buggy. And the inverse - my airpods are amazing, and that makes me want to buy more apple products. Its the same with countries. You and I both live in representative democracies. We're represented by whoever wins our elections. Even if you didn't vote for Trump, collectively your country voted for Trump. Like him or not, as a nation, you've collectively decided to make him your leader & representative. He represents you on the world stage. In some sense, thats what a nation is: its a collection of people who tie their fate together. Who rally around a collective vision for the future. Its the same for me. I would like it very much if our country stopped ruining our coral reefs. I didn't vote for those policies (and I personally pushed back against a lot of Australia's surveillance laws). But internationally I still have to wear some shame for what my country is doing.
defrost 1y ago
Largely what josephg said, with of a strong dash of the US holds a great deal of responsibility for the current state of the climate by virtue of being the country that globally led the world in CO2 emmissions from the early days, the country that outsourced it's emmissions to China, the country that leads in per capita consumption, a country that has led the world in climate change denial, and the country of origin of many of the companies that influence the Australian government and extract oil and gas about the Australian coast. The UK, the US, AU, and others have long cross outsourced spying on citizens for the hand washing aspects, US private companies are responsible for a hefty load of that and happily sell their privacy invasion summaries to US and other intelligence services.

josephg 1y ago

> For example, my country routes internet traffic to Australia solely to take advantage of its pro-surveillance laws while undermining my rights as a US citizen Then sort out the laws in your country. As an Australian citizen, I can't "fix" US politics. I can't and I wouldn't want to try - because its not any of my business. If the US government really wants to infringe on your american civil liberties, there's nothing I - or any other Australian - can do to stop them. (Well other than meddling in your elections or invading - and I don't think anybody wants that). Its up to you and your countrymen. Nobody else can vote. As for the environment and the great barrier reef - politically I totally agree with you. Its an unfolding, unforced tragedy. But you've also gotta understand, if your president says he wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and do whats best today for americans, it weakens your moral standing when you lecture others about doing the same. You can't have it both ways.

soulofmischief 1y ago
> As an Australian citizen, I can't "fix" US politics. I can't and I wouldn't want to try That's great, but I didn't ask you to, and I am pretty confused where you got this notion that I was. > if your president says he wants to largely ignore the rest of the world and do whats best today for americans, it weakens your moral standing when you lecture others about doing the same. It absolutely does not weaken my moral standing. I did not vote for the traitors currently making a farce of my country. That has absolutely zero to do with what I've mentioned here. I'm really not sure the purpose of your comments or what value you're attempting to add to this thread.
- josephg 1y ago
  Fair point. I'm projecting a bit much, because I'm kinda pissed off about how much americans assume everything everywhere is about america and should be judged by american values. I agree that its not weird or creepy to follow whats going on in other countries. But you hit a nerve when you said this upthread: "Australia is such a draconian nanny state, hell-bent on surveillance and authoritarian control" because we require ID to get a phone number. It would be cheap to shoot back with criticisms of the US. But that would be pointless. So, I think its a more interesting conversation to talk about where the wall should be here. How do we talk here, between our countries? > It absolutely does not weaken my moral standing. I did not vote for the traitors currently making a farce of my country. I don't agree. I don't think your voting habits in particular give you enough distance to absolve you entirely for anything your leader does internationally. I see it as an API boundary question. Imagine if your company ships a buggy product. From inside the organisation, it's legitimate to say "The bug is not my fault!". But from the outside, nobody cares. The whole organisation is collectively responsible for their successes and failures. The reputation of the whole organisation is elevated when they put out good products. And that brand reputation suffers when they put out bad products. I don't care which engineer in particular implemented a bug on my iphone. I care that my iphone is buggy. And the inverse - my airpods are amazing, and that makes me want to buy more apple products. Its the same with countries. You and I both live in representative democracies. We're represented by whoever wins our elections. Even if you didn't vote for Trump, collectively your country voted for Trump. Like him or not, as a nation, you've collectively decided to make him your leader & representative. He represents you on the world stage. In some sense, thats what a nation is: its a collection of people who tie their fate together. Who rally around a collective vision for the future. Its the same for me. I would like it very much if our country stopped ruining our coral reefs. I didn't vote for those policies (and I personally pushed back against a lot of Australia's surveillance laws). But internationally I still have to wear some shame for what my country is doing.

defrost 1y ago

Largely what josephg said, with of a strong dash of the US holds a great deal of responsibility for the current state of the climate by virtue of being the country that globally led the world in CO2 emmissions from the early days, the country that outsourced it's emmissions to China, the country that leads in per capita consumption, a country that has led the world in climate change denial, and the country of origin of many of the companies that influence the Australian government and extract oil and gas about the Australian coast. The UK, the US, AU, and others have long cross outsourced spying on citizens for the hand washing aspects, US private companies are responsible for a hefty load of that and happily sell their privacy invasion summaries to US and other intelligence services.