4 ms·

Why not? The sponsorship they get is far from enough. For such a significant CA, it should be a lot more than that

szszrk 1y ago
Do you have some links to their financial reports for last years? I'd love to see that. > Why not? Because I believe it is "sickening" expressing how "sickening (...) it is that large companies don't support open source/free initiative" when discussing one of the projects that do global-scale operations purely on corporate and personal donations. Somehow Let's Encrypt themself don't express that sickening in their blogs and websites. They do thank their sponsors, though.
- eszed 1y ago
  Hey, I was actually in this position at work a few years ago, when I set up a couple of internal (monitoring stuff) servers for my own use. I used Let's Encrypt, because I use them (for free) at home (media server), and know how it works. I wanted to throw them some (of work's) cash, and... the only two options were "Sponsor", and "Donate". Sponsorship was, uh, wrong for my use-case: it starts at some multiple-thousands of dollars. Donating would be the obviously correct choice, but putting something marked "donation" onto a corporate card would occasion a... Weird conversation, in which "you could have got this for free, but you're choosing to send them money?" would likely have been raised. I went with free, and was sad about it. Yes, corporate expectations and affordances around FOSS should change - and, I probably could have persuaded my employer that a few dollars a month for Let's Encrypt was the Right Thing To Do, so I'm a little bit of a coward - but LE would make it so much easier if there was a Send Us Money option that looks like a fee for service, rather than a donation. (Maybe being a 501c(3) precludes that? I don't know.) There's the "Corporate doesn't understand FOSS" problem, but there's also a "FOSS doesn't speak Corporatese" obstacle there, too. In the end I sent LE $20, or something, of my own money (I've had years of trouble-free use on my media server, and should have before), but they'd have had $5 / month of work's cash for years if they'd made that easier to do.
  - pabs3 1y ago
    There is a video here where FOSS donations confuses an accountant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTY-lQ3S1gw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTY-lQ3S1gw You could instead frame it as a payment for your dependency on the future existence of the FOSS you are using for free.
  - szszrk 1y ago
    They are (Internet Security Research Group) a non-profit, so maybe it would be hard to provide official services like you describe? I still can't find proper data on their financials, but at least below report (page 42) says only 10% of their revenue is donations. And 48% out of total spending is LE. https://www.isrg.org/documents/2024-ISRG-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.isrg.org/documents/2024-ISRG-Annual-Report.pdf
    - Jarwain 1y ago
      It may not even have to be an official service, just something that shows up on a CC statement as something other than a "donation". Or hey maybe they could charge for these expiration notifications.
      - szszrk 1y ago
        I'm really not sure if that kind of organization can simply sell services like that. I'm guessing IRS doesn't care of that CC statement was official or not :)

Do you have some links to their financial reports for last years? I'd love to see that. > Why not? Because I believe it is "sickening" expressing how "sickening (...) it is that large companies don't support open source/free initiative" when discussing one of the projects that do global-scale operations purely on corporate and personal donations. Somehow Let's Encrypt themself don't express that sickening in their blogs and websites. They do thank their sponsors, though.

eszed 1y ago
Hey, I was actually in this position at work a few years ago, when I set up a couple of internal (monitoring stuff) servers for my own use. I used Let's Encrypt, because I use them (for free) at home (media server), and know how it works. I wanted to throw them some (of work's) cash, and... the only two options were "Sponsor", and "Donate". Sponsorship was, uh, wrong for my use-case: it starts at some multiple-thousands of dollars. Donating would be the obviously correct choice, but putting something marked "donation" onto a corporate card would occasion a... Weird conversation, in which "you could have got this for free, but you're choosing to send them money?" would likely have been raised. I went with free, and was sad about it. Yes, corporate expectations and affordances around FOSS should change - and, I probably could have persuaded my employer that a few dollars a month for Let's Encrypt was the Right Thing To Do, so I'm a little bit of a coward - but LE would make it so much easier if there was a Send Us Money option that looks like a fee for service, rather than a donation. (Maybe being a 501c(3) precludes that? I don't know.) There's the "Corporate doesn't understand FOSS" problem, but there's also a "FOSS doesn't speak Corporatese" obstacle there, too. In the end I sent LE $20, or something, of my own money (I've had years of trouble-free use on my media server, and should have before), but they'd have had $5 / month of work's cash for years if they'd made that easier to do.
- pabs3 1y ago
  There is a video here where FOSS donations confuses an accountant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTY-lQ3S1gw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTY-lQ3S1gw You could instead frame it as a payment for your dependency on the future existence of the FOSS you are using for free.
- szszrk 1y ago
  They are (Internet Security Research Group) a non-profit, so maybe it would be hard to provide official services like you describe? I still can't find proper data on their financials, but at least below report (page 42) says only 10% of their revenue is donations. And 48% out of total spending is LE. https://www.isrg.org/documents/2024-ISRG-Annual-Report.pdf https://www.isrg.org/documents/2024-ISRG-Annual-Report.pdf
  - Jarwain 1y ago
    It may not even have to be an official service, just something that shows up on a CC statement as something other than a "donation". Or hey maybe they could charge for these expiration notifications.
    - szszrk 1y ago
      I'm really not sure if that kind of organization can simply sell services like that. I'm guessing IRS doesn't care of that CC statement was official or not :)