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i’m not a licensed nutritionist so i’ll defer to the experts. My recall on the details is not the best, simply what i remember from a few nutritionist sessions

i’m not a licensed nutritionist so i’ll defer to the experts. My recall on the details is not the best, simply what i remember from a few nutritionist sessions my wife had. :) What i do know is white bread for breakfast wouldn’t be considered healthy by any nutritionist i’ve spoken to. Unless it’s paired with something else like eggs. And comparing it to cereal feels absurd, since cereal is loaded with extra sugars on purpose. Except for plain cornflakes and a few healthy brands at whole foods / trader joes.

adrian_b 1y ago
By "cereal" I have meant cereal plants, i.e. wheat, rye, barley, oats, rice, maize, millet, sorghum and so on, in their raw ingredient forms, i.e. as grains, meal or flour form. Cereals have been the main sources of energy in human food for the last ten thousand years, and among them wheat (because oats is only a minor crop) has also been a non-negligible source of proteins during all this time. I have not referred to "breakfast cereals", which are the most obvious example of garbage food provided by industrial production. (Many decades ago, there has been a time when I was too focused on professional problems and too careless about health and nutrition, and for a long time I have been eating some Nestlé breakfast cereals. After realizing the errors of my ways and blacklisting breakfast cereals, together with other junk food, like fruit juices or fruit yogurt, I was surprised by the quick improvements brought by this decision.)
- lurking_swe 1y ago
  oh i see. I’d probably refer to that category as simply “grains” or “cereal grains”. I’m in agreement!
alexey-salmin 1y ago
> What i do know is white bread for breakfast wouldn’t be considered healthy by any nutritionist i’ve spoken to. Unless it’s paired with something else like eggs I guess try speaking with a French nutritionist? Typical breakfast here is a "tartine" which is baguette with butter and jam. Eggs for breakfast are nonexistant. And yet very few people are fat. The obesity epidemic is (a) very recent and (b) mostly US-specific. Something I don't understand is why people keep looking for culprits among things that are (a) very old and (b) popular worldwide. People have been eating white bread for millenia and still do all around the world. It's unlikely that white bread suddenly became evil and decided to kill people. Look for things that are new like sugary drinks. Or better, new AND US-specific like HFCS added everywhere including bread. Huge portions are also new and so are private cars. I don't know what's the main driver but I'm pretty sure it's not white bread or butter.
- cdrini 1y ago
  I was going to comment on how the rise in obesity is a global phenomenon in almost all countries, but I double checked the data, and France and Spain are, as far as I can find, the only countries with a _decreasing_ obesity rate! So indeed +1 whatever France/Spain are doing because it's working. Although it might also be worth analyzing if this correlates with increased immigration, which might affect this level in some ways. Here is France + some other European countries + US/CAN/UK: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-as-obese?tab=chart&country=USA~CAN~GBR~ALB~AND~AUT~BLR~BEL~BIH~BGR~HRV~CYP~CZE~DNK~EST~FIN~FRA~DEU~GRC~HUN~ISL~IRL~ITA~KOS~LVA~LIE~LTU~LUX~MLT~MDA~MCO~MNE~NLD~MKD~NOR~POL~PRT~ROU~RUS~SMR~SRB~SVK~SVN~ESP~SWE~CHE~UKR~GBR~VAT~ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-a... And here is France + other top GDP countries around the world: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-as-obese?tab=chart&country=USA~CHN~JPN~DEU~IND~GBR~FRA~ITA~BRA~CAN~KOR~RUS~ESP~AUS~MEX~IDN~NLD~SAU~CHE~TUR~ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-a...
- lurking_swe 1y ago
  You’re suggesting a french nutritionist would _encourage_ eating a baguette with butter as a healthy meal? That’s surprising to me. I suppose it _can_ be OK for a person who’s in good health already, but i wouldn’t purposely choose it and feel healthy about it lol. I can think of many alternatives that actually offer nutrition too. Like a banana, or baguette with a small side of sautéed peppers or mushrooms. I certainly wouldn’t suggest it to someone that’s already sick with diabetes or obesity for example. I have in-laws in paris, and i will say they walk as much as NYers. In other words, they are not sedentary like most americans. Portions sizes vary a lot too. I agree with you that sugary things that are new and trendy do a lot of damage!

adrian_b 1y ago

By "cereal" I have meant cereal plants, i.e. wheat, rye, barley, oats, rice, maize, millet, sorghum and so on, in their raw ingredient forms, i.e. as grains, meal or flour form. Cereals have been the main sources of energy in human food for the last ten thousand years, and among them wheat (because oats is only a minor crop) has also been a non-negligible source of proteins during all this time. I have not referred to "breakfast cereals", which are the most obvious example of garbage food provided by industrial production. (Many decades ago, there has been a time when I was too focused on professional problems and too careless about health and nutrition, and for a long time I have been eating some Nestlé breakfast cereals. After realizing the errors of my ways and blacklisting breakfast cereals, together with other junk food, like fruit juices or fruit yogurt, I was surprised by the quick improvements brought by this decision.)

lurking_swe 1y ago
oh i see. I’d probably refer to that category as simply “grains” or “cereal grains”. I’m in agreement!

alexey-salmin 1y ago

> What i do know is white bread for breakfast wouldn’t be considered healthy by any nutritionist i’ve spoken to. Unless it’s paired with something else like eggs I guess try speaking with a French nutritionist? Typical breakfast here is a "tartine" which is baguette with butter and jam. Eggs for breakfast are nonexistant. And yet very few people are fat. The obesity epidemic is (a) very recent and (b) mostly US-specific. Something I don't understand is why people keep looking for culprits among things that are (a) very old and (b) popular worldwide. People have been eating white bread for millenia and still do all around the world. It's unlikely that white bread suddenly became evil and decided to kill people. Look for things that are new like sugary drinks. Or better, new AND US-specific like HFCS added everywhere including bread. Huge portions are also new and so are private cars. I don't know what's the main driver but I'm pretty sure it's not white bread or butter.

cdrini 1y ago
I was going to comment on how the rise in obesity is a global phenomenon in almost all countries, but I double checked the data, and France and Spain are, as far as I can find, the only countries with a _decreasing_ obesity rate! So indeed +1 whatever France/Spain are doing because it's working. Although it might also be worth analyzing if this correlates with increased immigration, which might affect this level in some ways. Here is France + some other European countries + US/CAN/UK: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-as-obese?tab=chart&country=USA~CAN~GBR~ALB~AND~AUT~BLR~BEL~BIH~BGR~HRV~CYP~CZE~DNK~EST~FIN~FRA~DEU~GRC~HUN~ISL~IRL~ITA~KOS~LVA~LIE~LTU~LUX~MLT~MDA~MCO~MNE~NLD~MKD~NOR~POL~PRT~ROU~RUS~SMR~SRB~SVK~SVN~ESP~SWE~CHE~UKR~GBR~VAT~ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-a... And here is France + other top GDP countries around the world: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-as-obese?tab=chart&country=USA~CHN~JPN~DEU~IND~GBR~FRA~ITA~BRA~CAN~KOR~RUS~ESP~AUS~MEX~IDN~NLD~SAU~CHE~TUR~ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-adults-defined-a...
lurking_swe 1y ago
You’re suggesting a french nutritionist would _encourage_ eating a baguette with butter as a healthy meal? That’s surprising to me. I suppose it _can_ be OK for a person who’s in good health already, but i wouldn’t purposely choose it and feel healthy about it lol. I can think of many alternatives that actually offer nutrition too. Like a banana, or baguette with a small side of sautéed peppers or mushrooms. I certainly wouldn’t suggest it to someone that’s already sick with diabetes or obesity for example. I have in-laws in paris, and i will say they walk as much as NYers. In other words, they are not sedentary like most americans. Portions sizes vary a lot too. I agree with you that sugary things that are new and trendy do a lot of damage!