6 ms·

Interesting; America seems to be suffering the same fate. It takes municipalities years to fix highways. The main highway running through Silicon Valley, 101, h

Interesting; America seems to be suffering the same fate. It takes municipalities years to fix highways. The main highway running through Silicon Valley, 101, has been under construction for more than a decade and is in dire need of improvement. It seems the network of roads built in the 40s, 50s and 60s just can no longer be done efficiently.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> America seems to be suffering the same fate Not uniformly. New York's LIRR (90 to 95% [1]) and Metro-North (99% [2]) feature on-time rates that rival the Swiss (93% [3]). [1] https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/reports/pdf/report-9-2025.pdf https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/reports/pdf/report-9-2025.pdf [2] https://wpdh.com/metro-north-on-time-reliability/ https://wpdh.com/metro-north-on-time-reliability/ [3] https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?=&years=1,4,5,6,7&scroll=181&highlighted= https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?=&years=1,4,5,6,7&scrol...
- kelnos 1y ago
  Not sure I understand your point; GP was talking about highway maintenance and you're talking about trains.
- Svip 1y ago
  You might want to look into what they define as being "late". > A commuter train is considered on-time by the LIRR if it arrives within 5 minutes and 59 seconds of its scheduled arrival time. The second source doesn't say, but let's assume it's the same as for LIRR, i.e. 6 minutes. It's also unfortunate that the SBB doesn't immediately tell us the metric, but I happen to know it's 3 minutes (more specifically 2 minutes and 59 seconds). In other words, the LIRR permits a delay of twice the time as SBB for it to constitute late. The S-trains in Copenhagen now has a punctuality of 97% using a 3 minute metric.[0] [0] https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/virksomheden/rettidighed/s-togs-rettidighed/ https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/virksomheden/rettidighed/s-togs-re...
  - chgs 1y ago
    Is on time counted as time at every stop, or just the terminal. It’s easy to fake the terminal times with little impact by padding the timetable. Being on time at every station is far harder. Not sure how you compare a small simple system like Lord which is pretty much one line with a few branches with an integrated multi-national system like the entire Swiss railway either
    - Svip 1y ago
      The answer to your question is "it depends". Some also do weighed calculations, where it's "per passenger", which means trains that have a high passenger load being late have a larger impact than one with few passengers. At least in Denmark, where I am most familiar (though I expect most of Europe to be similar), it's per stop. As for the LIRR, it seems it's only the terminal station that counts: > Thus, a train is considered late only if it arrives at its final destination six minutes or more after its scheduled arrival time.
      - holowoodman 1y ago
        Which leads to the common trick: If a train is delayed, it will often skip the last stop and turn at a station before the last. So the train was cancelled and not late at the final destination, therefore doesn't affect the punctuality statistics. And yes, in Germany this happens and is reflected in rising "cancelled train" statistics. KPIs for Deutsche Bahn managers haven't caught up yet ;)
      - chgs 1y ago
        Final destination minutes values are much easier to cheat so aren’t comparable even without the 6 minute “on time” issue.
philwelch 1y ago
That’s largely a California problem. Here in Texas we are building highways on top of highways.
- dmoy 1y ago
  The Texas interchange stacks are terrifying if you're not used to them. The first time I went up a five level stack I legit thought I was going off the edge of the road into the sky or something, and was gonna die. I was not prepared lol.
  - philwelch 1y ago
    The interchange stacks are wild but we are also really into double decker highways. All of which also have frontage roads so that’s practically triple the amount of road.
  - prawn 1y ago
    Just out of interest, can you point me towards one on Google Maps? (Curious non-American.)
    - philwelch 1y ago
      Here's one of the most famous examples: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yxgJryDok962rdHB8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/yxgJryDok962rdHB8 There's even a Wikipedia article with some photos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Five_Interchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Five_Interchange
Propelloni 1y ago
> It seems the network of roads built in the 40s, 50s and 60s just can no longer be done efficiently. Of course they can, we have not lost that capability. It's not a matter of efficiency but effectivity. Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Today's level of traffic far exceeds the anticipated level of traffic at the time of construction. Germany sees this all the time, esp. with regards to bridges. Maintaining a road or a bridge to be effective at supporting the original traffic levels is easy but under today's load would require constant maintenance to not deteriorate immediately. Those constructions need to be upgraded which is hard to impossible to do in situ. Let's take a well-known construction in Germany, the Leverkusener Brücke an der A1. It was originally built in the 1960s for a traffic level of 40,000 cars (and trucks) per day. It was upgraded and refurbished over the decades (meaning almost constant construction work happening) to a level of 100,000 cars per day. It wasn't enough, in 2016 about 120,000 cars crossed the bridge per day. At the same time trucks got about 30 % heavier from 1960 to 1990 and we all know that passenger cars got heavier, too. So the whole bridge was replaced, which took 7 years, ending in 2024. During that time traffic was rerouted over two nearby bridges in Cologne and Düsseldorf. The Cologne bridge was so badly damaged by the additional load that it had to be partially closed down and now is up for refurbishment or, maybe, replacement. Network effects at work ;) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is: we are actually better at building stuff than our predecessors but the demands put on our constructions are much, much higher. I don't dare to say if our capabilities have grown as much as the demands require.
- cyberax 1y ago
  > Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.
  - cuu508 1y ago
    More roads? More lanes?
    - 1y ago

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> America seems to be suffering the same fate Not uniformly. New York's LIRR (90 to 95% [1]) and Metro-North (99% [2]) feature on-time rates that rival the Swiss (93% [3]). [1] https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/reports/pdf/report-9-2025.pdf https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/reports/pdf/report-9-2025.pdf [2] https://wpdh.com/metro-north-on-time-reliability/ https://wpdh.com/metro-north-on-time-reliability/ [3] https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?=&years=1,4,5,6,7&scroll=181&highlighted= https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?=&years=1,4,5,6,7&scrol...

kelnos 1y ago
Not sure I understand your point; GP was talking about highway maintenance and you're talking about trains.
Svip 1y ago
You might want to look into what they define as being "late". > A commuter train is considered on-time by the LIRR if it arrives within 5 minutes and 59 seconds of its scheduled arrival time. The second source doesn't say, but let's assume it's the same as for LIRR, i.e. 6 minutes. It's also unfortunate that the SBB doesn't immediately tell us the metric, but I happen to know it's 3 minutes (more specifically 2 minutes and 59 seconds). In other words, the LIRR permits a delay of twice the time as SBB for it to constitute late. The S-trains in Copenhagen now has a punctuality of 97% using a 3 minute metric.[0] [0] https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/virksomheden/rettidighed/s-togs-rettidighed/ https://www.dsb.dk/om-dsb/virksomheden/rettidighed/s-togs-re...
- chgs 1y ago
  Is on time counted as time at every stop, or just the terminal. It’s easy to fake the terminal times with little impact by padding the timetable. Being on time at every station is far harder. Not sure how you compare a small simple system like Lord which is pretty much one line with a few branches with an integrated multi-national system like the entire Swiss railway either
  - Svip 1y ago
    The answer to your question is "it depends". Some also do weighed calculations, where it's "per passenger", which means trains that have a high passenger load being late have a larger impact than one with few passengers. At least in Denmark, where I am most familiar (though I expect most of Europe to be similar), it's per stop. As for the LIRR, it seems it's only the terminal station that counts: > Thus, a train is considered late only if it arrives at its final destination six minutes or more after its scheduled arrival time.
    - holowoodman 1y ago
      Which leads to the common trick: If a train is delayed, it will often skip the last stop and turn at a station before the last. So the train was cancelled and not late at the final destination, therefore doesn't affect the punctuality statistics. And yes, in Germany this happens and is reflected in rising "cancelled train" statistics. KPIs for Deutsche Bahn managers haven't caught up yet ;)
    - chgs 1y ago
      Final destination minutes values are much easier to cheat so aren’t comparable even without the 6 minute “on time” issue.

philwelch 1y ago

That’s largely a California problem. Here in Texas we are building highways on top of highways.

dmoy 1y ago
The Texas interchange stacks are terrifying if you're not used to them. The first time I went up a five level stack I legit thought I was going off the edge of the road into the sky or something, and was gonna die. I was not prepared lol.
- philwelch 1y ago
  The interchange stacks are wild but we are also really into double decker highways. All of which also have frontage roads so that’s practically triple the amount of road.
- prawn 1y ago
  Just out of interest, can you point me towards one on Google Maps? (Curious non-American.)
  - philwelch 1y ago
    Here's one of the most famous examples: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yxgJryDok962rdHB8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/yxgJryDok962rdHB8 There's even a Wikipedia article with some photos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Five_Interchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Five_Interchange

Propelloni 1y ago

> It seems the network of roads built in the 40s, 50s and 60s just can no longer be done efficiently. Of course they can, we have not lost that capability. It's not a matter of efficiency but effectivity. Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Today's level of traffic far exceeds the anticipated level of traffic at the time of construction. Germany sees this all the time, esp. with regards to bridges. Maintaining a road or a bridge to be effective at supporting the original traffic levels is easy but under today's load would require constant maintenance to not deteriorate immediately. Those constructions need to be upgraded which is hard to impossible to do in situ. Let's take a well-known construction in Germany, the Leverkusener Brücke an der A1. It was originally built in the 1960s for a traffic level of 40,000 cars (and trucks) per day. It was upgraded and refurbished over the decades (meaning almost constant construction work happening) to a level of 100,000 cars per day. It wasn't enough, in 2016 about 120,000 cars crossed the bridge per day. At the same time trucks got about 30 % heavier from 1960 to 1990 and we all know that passenger cars got heavier, too. So the whole bridge was replaced, which took 7 years, ending in 2024. During that time traffic was rerouted over two nearby bridges in Cologne and Düsseldorf. The Cologne bridge was so badly damaged by the additional load that it had to be partially closed down and now is up for refurbishment or, maybe, replacement. Network effects at work ;) Anyway, what I'm trying to say is: we are actually better at building stuff than our predecessors but the demands put on our constructions are much, much higher. I don't dare to say if our capabilities have grown as much as the demands require.

cyberax 1y ago
> Road constructions of the 1960s are not effective for 21st century traffic demands. Citation needed. As I see it, the US is still riding on the coattails of 1960-s road construction. We should be doing more of it, in fact, not sabotaging it with bike lanes and road diets.
- cuu508 1y ago
  More roads? More lanes?
  - 1y ago