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America is weird in that the poorest get significantly more benefits than the merely lower-middle class. And the majority of Americans pay no federal tax after

America is weird in that the poorest get significantly more benefits than the merely lower-middle class. And the majority of Americans pay no federal tax after EITC and other refunds. You can get SNAP (free food), Section 8 (free housing), Medicaid (healthcare, CHIP for kids is easier than adults, but still many people get it), and if you manage to raise smart kids despite poverty they will get college for free as well (most highly-selective universities are free for the poor, but extremely expensive for even the middle class). I own a lot of rental property and I have a Section 8 tenant who has never worked, completely gamed the system with a subjective disability that renders her unable to ever hold a job (supposedly). A good tenant but is constantly trying to give away tons of food she buys because she always tries to spend the SNAP she gets every month. And she gets free heat, and electricity, and public transportation pass, and on and on.

Aeglaecia 1y ago
through my eyes i see a similar implication to disproprortionate judicial punishment - aspects of a hegemonic system designed to suppress individual voices. for example, pirates in the UK being handed jail terms of greater duration than those given to individuals having killed other humans - people daring to go against the powerful have their lives taken away from them, whereas infighting within the working class is almost encouraged by miniscule sentencing. or in this case, why bother putting any effort into life when doing nothing provides a greater reward? why attempt to make something of oneself at the risk of losing everything forever? all in all, whether or not intentionally curated, these societal facets serve to foment an atmosphere of fear - individuals are forced to exist either in ignorance, or otherwise must live with the knowledge that minor infractions may end one's dreams, while concurrently one's dreams may be ended at any time for no reason but the whim of another. such a dichotomy between ignorance and fear effectively suppresses societal change, which if it were to happen anyway, would be instantly detected by automated surveillance, and promptly quashed under fully legal pretences. but that's not even necessary. the populace is already addicted to living vicariously through screens (now from birth thanks to parents being forced to devote energy to work instead of their children). yet the world keeps turning
watwut 1y ago
The say you write about it, being poor in America is easy and great. And then you look at powerty in America and see hopeless desperate people with no access to justice,lite chances in life, little access to healthcare and raising homelessness on top of it. And funny enough, the poor are just about to loose their healthcare and food stamps via big beautiful bill. Which is official name of that bill.
xandrius 1y ago
What a weird take: I'd definitely expect the poorest/sickest to get the most additional benefits of all, the middle to get none and the top to get charged extra to cover up. If you're middle class, that should be the average and that means you only get things which are the foundation of the system covered by the taxes.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  The problem with these discussions is the errant use of poor/middle/upper/top as class identifiers. The more useful identifiers would be roughly young and/or working, and old and/or non working. The latter category also covers the beneficiaries of wealthy people (who are among the old and/or non working). The USA (and many countries, especially democracies) has a situation where your expected quality of life is lower (or not sufficiently higher) for the young and working than the young and non working for those not lucky enough to be born to the right families or prudent enough to make the right choices in school, etc. The incentives should always be such that expected quality of life is always greater for those working than non working. Note that this is a different topic than whatever the floor for quality of life should be.
  - hobs 1y ago
    You are saying this with completely forgetting that the vast majority of the people who are old and non working are in fact, retired, sick, on medicaid, and generally just not that great at working in the first place because they already (most of the time) spent 40+ years working. Why would the person who spent 40+ years working have a worse quality of life than someone whose spent 10 years working? The incentives you put up basically say "as soon as you are done we're sending you to the glue factory."
    - Workaccount2 1y ago
      The whole point of retirement saving is so that you can still support yourself after your mind and body can. Just about everyone is aware of this, yet many still save nothing because "society will deal with it" when they get older. When I was younger I had an easy time buying into "everything is too expensive to save money", now that I am older, past the "you must start saving now" age, I know way way too many people who don't save for retirement and live stupidly beyond their means. "We don't have any retirement savings because how could we give up eating out 1-2 times a week, $250 monthly beauty appointments, $90 gym membership (they have clean warm towels!), and our annual Disney vacation and our family Lake Tahoe trip. And no way will you catch me in a 5 yr old used car, sorry I cannot sacrifice my new car leases!" I know so many more people who recklessly spend money than people who honestly are trying but cannot make it.

Aeglaecia 1y ago

through my eyes i see a similar implication to disproprortionate judicial punishment - aspects of a hegemonic system designed to suppress individual voices. for example, pirates in the UK being handed jail terms of greater duration than those given to individuals having killed other humans - people daring to go against the powerful have their lives taken away from them, whereas infighting within the working class is almost encouraged by miniscule sentencing. or in this case, why bother putting any effort into life when doing nothing provides a greater reward? why attempt to make something of oneself at the risk of losing everything forever? all in all, whether or not intentionally curated, these societal facets serve to foment an atmosphere of fear - individuals are forced to exist either in ignorance, or otherwise must live with the knowledge that minor infractions may end one's dreams, while concurrently one's dreams may be ended at any time for no reason but the whim of another. such a dichotomy between ignorance and fear effectively suppresses societal change, which if it were to happen anyway, would be instantly detected by automated surveillance, and promptly quashed under fully legal pretences. but that's not even necessary. the populace is already addicted to living vicariously through screens (now from birth thanks to parents being forced to devote energy to work instead of their children). yet the world keeps turning

watwut 1y ago

The say you write about it, being poor in America is easy and great. And then you look at powerty in America and see hopeless desperate people with no access to justice,lite chances in life, little access to healthcare and raising homelessness on top of it. And funny enough, the poor are just about to loose their healthcare and food stamps via big beautiful bill. Which is official name of that bill.

xandrius 1y ago

What a weird take: I'd definitely expect the poorest/sickest to get the most additional benefits of all, the middle to get none and the top to get charged extra to cover up. If you're middle class, that should be the average and that means you only get things which are the foundation of the system covered by the taxes.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
The problem with these discussions is the errant use of poor/middle/upper/top as class identifiers. The more useful identifiers would be roughly young and/or working, and old and/or non working. The latter category also covers the beneficiaries of wealthy people (who are among the old and/or non working). The USA (and many countries, especially democracies) has a situation where your expected quality of life is lower (or not sufficiently higher) for the young and working than the young and non working for those not lucky enough to be born to the right families or prudent enough to make the right choices in school, etc. The incentives should always be such that expected quality of life is always greater for those working than non working. Note that this is a different topic than whatever the floor for quality of life should be.
- hobs 1y ago
  You are saying this with completely forgetting that the vast majority of the people who are old and non working are in fact, retired, sick, on medicaid, and generally just not that great at working in the first place because they already (most of the time) spent 40+ years working. Why would the person who spent 40+ years working have a worse quality of life than someone whose spent 10 years working? The incentives you put up basically say "as soon as you are done we're sending you to the glue factory."
  - Workaccount2 1y ago
    The whole point of retirement saving is so that you can still support yourself after your mind and body can. Just about everyone is aware of this, yet many still save nothing because "society will deal with it" when they get older. When I was younger I had an easy time buying into "everything is too expensive to save money", now that I am older, past the "you must start saving now" age, I know way way too many people who don't save for retirement and live stupidly beyond their means. "We don't have any retirement savings because how could we give up eating out 1-2 times a week, $250 monthly beauty appointments, $90 gym membership (they have clean warm towels!), and our annual Disney vacation and our family Lake Tahoe trip. And no way will you catch me in a 5 yr old used car, sorry I cannot sacrifice my new car leases!" I know so many more people who recklessly spend money than people who honestly are trying but cannot make it.