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You don't have to justify your personal situation to me. If you feel like buying a 80k truck, that's cool. The issue with America is the vast majority of truc

You don't have to justify your personal situation to me. If you feel like buying a 80k truck, that's cool. The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck. This isn't the best source, but it says here the average truck buyer is only making 82k or so. https://www.myautoconcepts.com/blogdetails?id=4049 https://www.myautoconcepts.com/blogdetails?id=4049 From experience talking to friends and sales people plenty of folks with 60 to 80k incomes find themselves in 50k plus vehicles. I suspect for the majority of truck buyers, if credit wasn't as easily available, they'd find alternatives. The only reason the typical person can buy an 80k truck is they can get a loan. Let's say their was a hypothetical car loan limit of 1/4th of your annual income. A lot of people would find out really fast they don't need a massive truck. Manufacturers would in turn adjust accordingly. A 15k car, maybe without a bunch of touch screens, is possible. This is probably why cars are cheaper in China, credit isn't as available.

iancmceachern 1y ago
>>"The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck." I would say that's not what matters in this discussion (comparing trucks vs cars). I would also say the same sentence is true for cars, most Americans can't afford 80k cars. What I am saying is you are not accurate. Most trucks in the US are not 80k trucks bought by suburban folks to buy groceries in. Most trucks are bought by fleets, by small businesses, etc. They're the standard white fleet specs, not the high end trucks. They're bought by farmers, ranchers and drywallers. Most. Just because you don't hang around in those circles and only see your suburban neighbors and their trucks doesn't mean that's the overall trend. Everything you highlight here is also true for cars, and worse even. I'm not justifying anything, I don't owe you $%&#, I am saying you are wrong and giving evidence as to why.
caleblloyd 1y ago
Another (possibly bigger) reason cars are cheaper in China is because their government subsidizes the heck out of BYD and the likes. It would be like if Tesla didn’t have to pay anything to build their factories.
- 999900000999 1y ago
  https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wharton-podcast/auto-bailout-ten-years-later-right-call/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wha... We subsidize our auto industry too. Imagine if we let in the Chinese EVs stacked with the tax credit, you could get a car for 5000$ or less.
- dluan 1y ago
  Not sure if this is a tongue in cheek joke, but Tesla has benefited massively from federal subsidies as well as local dog and pony shows of small municipal factory sites.
  - caleblloyd 1y ago
    It wasn’t a joke, but I do see your point. US subsidies for EVs are massive as well. I guess I just hadn’t dug into the numbers. Now I’m not sure who gives more subsidies, the US or China. The federal tax credit in the US is much higher than the Chinese equivalent it appears. But the factory and R&D subsidies are much harder to compute.
baby_souffle 1y ago
> Let's say their was a hypothetical car loan limit of 1/4th of your annual income. A lot of people would find out really fast they don't need a massive truck. So much this. Similar "unbounded" pressure on student loans / tuition. It keeps going up because students are able to get loans. Comparing the average income around here to MSRP of vehicles I see around here and it's clear that a lot of people are driving around in something that approximates a second mortgage!

iancmceachern 1y ago

>>"The issue with America is the vast majority of truck buyers really can't afford an 80k truck." I would say that's not what matters in this discussion (comparing trucks vs cars). I would also say the same sentence is true for cars, most Americans can't afford 80k cars. What I am saying is you are not accurate. Most trucks in the US are not 80k trucks bought by suburban folks to buy groceries in. Most trucks are bought by fleets, by small businesses, etc. They're the standard white fleet specs, not the high end trucks. They're bought by farmers, ranchers and drywallers. Most. Just because you don't hang around in those circles and only see your suburban neighbors and their trucks doesn't mean that's the overall trend. Everything you highlight here is also true for cars, and worse even. I'm not justifying anything, I don't owe you $%&#, I am saying you are wrong and giving evidence as to why.

caleblloyd 1y ago

Another (possibly bigger) reason cars are cheaper in China is because their government subsidizes the heck out of BYD and the likes. It would be like if Tesla didn’t have to pay anything to build their factories.

999900000999 1y ago
https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wharton-podcast/auto-bailout-ten-years-later-right-call/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/podcast/knowledge-at-wha... We subsidize our auto industry too. Imagine if we let in the Chinese EVs stacked with the tax credit, you could get a car for 5000$ or less.
dluan 1y ago
Not sure if this is a tongue in cheek joke, but Tesla has benefited massively from federal subsidies as well as local dog and pony shows of small municipal factory sites.
- caleblloyd 1y ago
  It wasn’t a joke, but I do see your point. US subsidies for EVs are massive as well. I guess I just hadn’t dug into the numbers. Now I’m not sure who gives more subsidies, the US or China. The federal tax credit in the US is much higher than the Chinese equivalent it appears. But the factory and R&D subsidies are much harder to compute.

baby_souffle 1y ago

> Let's say their was a hypothetical car loan limit of 1/4th of your annual income. A lot of people would find out really fast they don't need a massive truck. So much this. Similar "unbounded" pressure on student loans / tuition. It keeps going up because students are able to get loans. Comparing the average income around here to MSRP of vehicles I see around here and it's clear that a lot of people are driving around in something that approximates a second mortgage!