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You cannot fight lawlessness with lawlessness This is not true, and worse, this attitude is self-defeating when you have no control over the law nor its applic

by tremon 1y ago

You cannot fight lawlessness with lawlessness This is not true, and worse, this attitude is self-defeating when you have no control over the law nor its application (as is arguably the case right now in the USA). True, you cannot rebuild on top of lawlessness, but you need to reach the rebuilding stage first. And the further you let the current regime entrench itself, the more lawlessness will be required to destroy it.

consumer451 1y ago
I am not sure what exactly gp was referring to, but the authoritarians are currently winning by simply, and peacefully, "flooding the zone." Well, they also own the majority of the media. However, they are not yet all powerful. We need a grassroots pro-EU, pro-democracy, NAFO-type movement. For now, we need to just fight with posts, comments, and podcasts, across all social media. As sad and boring as it might be, that's exactly how elections are won and lost these days.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  We need more than that. We need a hybrid warfare style approach. Flooding social media with pro-EU propaganda LLMs, sponsoring opposition politicians in authoritarian states and inciting protests against authoritarian governments. Our adversaries are all doing it. It's time we stop tying our own hands.
delusional 1y ago
> when you have no control over the law The term "lawlessness" in the way I use it isn't narrowly scoped to the specific set of laws a government has arrived at. I'm not saying you must follow the laws of the system to break the system, that will never happen. When I say "lawlessness" I'm thinking of a broad idea of a person who will succumb to no law. I agree that there must be turmoil to institute a new order, that is true no matter which dominant system you seek to replace, but at the end of the turmoil you must establish new rules, new law, which the winners of the struggle must then themselves adhere to. In this way they are not lawless, merely in disagreement with what the laws are.

by tremon 1y ago

consumer451 1y ago

I am not sure what exactly gp was referring to, but the authoritarians are currently winning by simply, and peacefully, "flooding the zone." Well, they also own the majority of the media. However, they are not yet all powerful. We need a grassroots pro-EU, pro-democracy, NAFO-type movement. For now, we need to just fight with posts, comments, and podcasts, across all social media. As sad and boring as it might be, that's exactly how elections are won and lost these days.

saubeidl 1y ago
We need more than that. We need a hybrid warfare style approach. Flooding social media with pro-EU propaganda LLMs, sponsoring opposition politicians in authoritarian states and inciting protests against authoritarian governments. Our adversaries are all doing it. It's time we stop tying our own hands.

delusional 1y ago

> when you have no control over the law The term "lawlessness" in the way I use it isn't narrowly scoped to the specific set of laws a government has arrived at. I'm not saying you must follow the laws of the system to break the system, that will never happen. When I say "lawlessness" I'm thinking of a broad idea of a person who will succumb to no law. I agree that there must be turmoil to institute a new order, that is true no matter which dominant system you seek to replace, but at the end of the turmoil you must establish new rules, new law, which the winners of the struggle must then themselves adhere to. In this way they are not lawless, merely in disagreement with what the laws are.