29 ms·

Interesting. I feel like this clause is violated very often by major apps: > Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes

by aqme28 1y ago

Interesting. I feel like this clause is violated very often by major apps: > Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages.

foooorsyth 1y ago
I’ve said several times before that notifications should be reportable as spam directly to Google/Apple, just like email spam reporting. Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked.
- remus 1y ago
  > Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked. Revolut are really annoying for this. I'm sure there's a few spare days In their development cycle for someone to implement it if they wanted to, but instead they keep everything on the same channel which is 50% promo shit, because you don't want to miss that notification warning you about fraudulent activity on your card.
- drdaeman 1y ago
  There should be a public API, open to any user-designated program (including self-made, without requiring any special hoops to obtain any fancy entitlements), that can act as a "firewall" for all notifications (except, possibly, for few system-critical ones), allowing it to control and modify those as it seems fit.
  - mzajc 1y ago
    Applications can interact with notifications on the user's behalf via the accessibility permission - I do this with KDE Connect. I don't know what the limitations are.
    - drdaeman 1y ago
      On iOS? Last time I've checked, kdeconnect-ios was unable to read any third-party notifications, not to mention doing anything to them or modifying their text or appearance in any way. Project readme still says "Notification syncing doesn't work because iOS applications can't access notifications of other apps" (https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#known-behavior-and-problems https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#kno...) so I think it's still a thing.
      - mzajc 1y ago
        On Android, I forgot to mention.
  - dreamcompiler 1y ago
    Precisely this. There needs to be an API that all apps have to use not only for notifications but also for getting your contacts, your phone's location, etc. that is spoofable by the user. Or better yet, an AI program that runs entirely on the phone and does the spoofing automatically and entirely on behalf of the user. Let the enshittified apps' ads interact with your AI agent and steal your fake "data" in the background without bothering the user. Also important: It must be IMPOSSIBLE for any app to detect that its requests are being intercepted by your agent. (If they can tell, they'll refuse to work until you give them direct access.) This is a real killer app for AI but you'll never get VC funding to build it.
    - netsharc 1y ago
      On Android such a spoof app existed, it can hook into seemingly any API call and return things you control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dt50HWys1k&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dt50HWys1k&t=27s But of course you need a rooted phone, and rooted phones can't run banking apps, tap-to-pay, Netflix, Pokemon Go, blah blah.. The notification "firewall" is probably not impossible to make. I use Pushbullet, it mirrors notifications to my computer (to the browser extension to be exact), and I can already dismiss notifications coming into my phone from the computer. It should be possible to make an app that intercepts all notifications, analyzes their contents and dismiss them if they're spam...
- miki123211 1y ago
  We also need some kind of (privacy friendly) open rate tracking and spam protection. If many users receive a new kind of notification, using a new template, with low open rates, and uncorrelated with app activity, somebody at Apple should at least give it a 5-second glance and decide between "false positive" and "needs to be elevated"
kccqzy 1y ago
As soon as I see one violation, I turn off the notification permission altogether. For example the Amazon shopping app can't send me notifications.
- sethops1 1y ago
  I'm at the point where literally only the messages, clock, and maps apps can send me notifications.
  - ponector 1y ago
    That is an awesome idea! To send ads from messages app.
    - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
      https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-invading-google-messages-heres-how-to-get-rid-of-them/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-inva...
- amendegree 1y ago
  Same I think I denied the wallet app the ability to notify me after this ad. It’s so ingrained in me that I don’t think about it anymore… if I see an add in a notification I just immediately swipe, settings, turn off
- rchaud 1y ago
  Why not just use the mobile website then? An app icon is itself equivalent to having a billboard on your homescreen. What is the app providing besides notifications that necessitates its use?
  - kortilla 1y ago
    Mobile websites are often either non existent or work far worse than the app.
discostrings 1y ago
Uber violates this. At least as of a few years ago, there was no way to get notifications about driver arrival without also getting special offer and Uber Eats spam notifications periodically. Not only was there no opt-in consent, there was no way to turn them off without disabling the status updates. It's particularly bad when apps with legitimate time-sensitive functionality do this. I denied the app the ability to send any notifications on principle, and now it's very annoying to have to check the app to see the driver status. It makes things worse for both me and them and I use it less as a result.
- sneak 1y ago
  DoorDash also. I tend to uninstall apps that do this if I have any alternative to them.
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    I uninstall even if I do not have alternatives, I install/delete Uber every time I use it. When I need a ride with them I install it, when the ride is over I tip the driver and delete the app. Every single time, no exceptions
- adeelk93 1y ago
  Account > Settings > Communication > Marketing Preferences. Uncheck them all. A bit hidden, but it does work.
  - discostrings 1y ago
    At the point in time when I disabled notifications for the app, it did not. I tried that. Even after navigating dark patterns, digging into the menus, and turning those options off, I still received promotion notifications. Perhaps they've fixed it since? I don't know because they've already burned my trust and they've done nothing to earn it back. Publicly acknowledging and apologizing for this would have been a way to start getting off my list of bad actors. Even if they've made it possible to successfully turn those off deep in the menus now, whatever dreamed-up definition of "opted in" it's operating under is a tortured legalistic one that undermines the actual meaning and spirit of opting in.
nixpulvis 1y ago
The Boston parking meter app violates this FFS. Love getting Nift gift card promotions randomly from the app I'm forced to use to pay the meter /s
miki123211 1y ago
Tinder and delivery apps definitely don't follow these rules.
msgodel 1y ago
In fact that's the main selling point for developing an iPhone app rather than a web page these days.
moffkalast 1y ago
I can hardly think of an app that uses notifications and doesn't abuse it that way. I pretty much block them as standard.

by aqme28 1y ago

foooorsyth 1y ago

I’ve said several times before that notifications should be reportable as spam directly to Google/Apple, just like email spam reporting. Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked.

remus 1y ago
> Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked. Revolut are really annoying for this. I'm sure there's a few spare days In their development cycle for someone to implement it if they wanted to, but instead they keep everything on the same channel which is 50% promo shit, because you don't want to miss that notification warning you about fraudulent activity on your card.
drdaeman 1y ago
There should be a public API, open to any user-designated program (including self-made, without requiring any special hoops to obtain any fancy entitlements), that can act as a "firewall" for all notifications (except, possibly, for few system-critical ones), allowing it to control and modify those as it seems fit.
- mzajc 1y ago
  Applications can interact with notifications on the user's behalf via the accessibility permission - I do this with KDE Connect. I don't know what the limitations are.
  - drdaeman 1y ago
    On iOS? Last time I've checked, kdeconnect-ios was unable to read any third-party notifications, not to mention doing anything to them or modifying their text or appearance in any way. Project readme still says "Notification syncing doesn't work because iOS applications can't access notifications of other apps" (https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#known-behavior-and-problems https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#kno...) so I think it's still a thing.
    - mzajc 1y ago
      On Android, I forgot to mention.
- dreamcompiler 1y ago
  Precisely this. There needs to be an API that all apps have to use not only for notifications but also for getting your contacts, your phone's location, etc. that is spoofable by the user. Or better yet, an AI program that runs entirely on the phone and does the spoofing automatically and entirely on behalf of the user. Let the enshittified apps' ads interact with your AI agent and steal your fake "data" in the background without bothering the user. Also important: It must be IMPOSSIBLE for any app to detect that its requests are being intercepted by your agent. (If they can tell, they'll refuse to work until you give them direct access.) This is a real killer app for AI but you'll never get VC funding to build it.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    On Android such a spoof app existed, it can hook into seemingly any API call and return things you control: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dt50HWys1k&t=27s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dt50HWys1k&t=27s But of course you need a rooted phone, and rooted phones can't run banking apps, tap-to-pay, Netflix, Pokemon Go, blah blah.. The notification "firewall" is probably not impossible to make. I use Pushbullet, it mirrors notifications to my computer (to the browser extension to be exact), and I can already dismiss notifications coming into my phone from the computer. It should be possible to make an app that intercepts all notifications, analyzes their contents and dismiss them if they're spam...
miki123211 1y ago
We also need some kind of (privacy friendly) open rate tracking and spam protection. If many users receive a new kind of notification, using a new template, with low open rates, and uncorrelated with app activity, somebody at Apple should at least give it a 5-second glance and decide between "false positive" and "needs to be elevated"

kccqzy 1y ago

As soon as I see one violation, I turn off the notification permission altogether. For example the Amazon shopping app can't send me notifications.

sethops1 1y ago
I'm at the point where literally only the messages, clock, and maps apps can send me notifications.
- ponector 1y ago
  That is an awesome idea! To send ads from messages app.
  - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
    https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-invading-google-messages-heres-how-to-get-rid-of-them/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-inva...
amendegree 1y ago
Same I think I denied the wallet app the ability to notify me after this ad. It’s so ingrained in me that I don’t think about it anymore… if I see an add in a notification I just immediately swipe, settings, turn off
rchaud 1y ago
Why not just use the mobile website then? An app icon is itself equivalent to having a billboard on your homescreen. What is the app providing besides notifications that necessitates its use?
- kortilla 1y ago
  Mobile websites are often either non existent or work far worse than the app.

discostrings 1y ago

Uber violates this. At least as of a few years ago, there was no way to get notifications about driver arrival without also getting special offer and Uber Eats spam notifications periodically. Not only was there no opt-in consent, there was no way to turn them off without disabling the status updates. It's particularly bad when apps with legitimate time-sensitive functionality do this. I denied the app the ability to send any notifications on principle, and now it's very annoying to have to check the app to see the driver status. It makes things worse for both me and them and I use it less as a result.

sneak 1y ago
DoorDash also. I tend to uninstall apps that do this if I have any alternative to them.
- bdangubic 1y ago
  I uninstall even if I do not have alternatives, I install/delete Uber every time I use it. When I need a ride with them I install it, when the ride is over I tip the driver and delete the app. Every single time, no exceptions
adeelk93 1y ago
Account > Settings > Communication > Marketing Preferences. Uncheck them all. A bit hidden, but it does work.
- discostrings 1y ago
  At the point in time when I disabled notifications for the app, it did not. I tried that. Even after navigating dark patterns, digging into the menus, and turning those options off, I still received promotion notifications. Perhaps they've fixed it since? I don't know because they've already burned my trust and they've done nothing to earn it back. Publicly acknowledging and apologizing for this would have been a way to start getting off my list of bad actors. Even if they've made it possible to successfully turn those off deep in the menus now, whatever dreamed-up definition of "opted in" it's operating under is a tortured legalistic one that undermines the actual meaning and spirit of opting in.

nixpulvis 1y ago

The Boston parking meter app violates this FFS. Love getting Nift gift card promotions randomly from the app I'm forced to use to pay the meter /s

miki123211 1y ago

Tinder and delivery apps definitely don't follow these rules.

msgodel 1y ago

In fact that's the main selling point for developing an iPhone app rather than a web page these days.

moffkalast 1y ago

I can hardly think of an app that uses notifications and doesn't abuse it that way. I pretty much block them as standard.