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> Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it From the very first paragraph in your own link: > Since then, the United Nations, many othe

> Israel did give up Gaza and gave Palestinians full control of it From the very first paragraph in your own link: > Since then, the United Nations, many other international humanitarian and legal organizations, and most academic commentators have continued to regard the Gaza Strip as being under Israeli occupation ... "Full control" - except over their border, their imports, their airspace, their electromagnetic frequencies, their coastline, their construction industry, etc etc. > WW-2, WW-1, the Romans. But the fact still stands that all those "moral" countries didn't hesitate to lay siege, starve people, bomb civilians, for tbh little reason. ... If you're taking the Romans and WW-2 as your baseline for morality, that would start to explain things.

YZF 1y ago
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The reasons the UN and others still regarded Gaza as under Israeli occupation are either political or technical. In practice when Israel left Gazans got full control. They had a border with Egypt, not to mention tunnels for smuggling goods under that border. They had enough control to build a large army, tunnels, rockets etc. I.e. they had control. They were able to send people to train in Iran. This anti-Israeli argument that somehow Israel dismantled its settlements and left but yet still "occupied" Gaza is nonsense. It does not stand any minimal scrutiny. Yes, as a result of Gazans making a choice to engage in war with Israel there was a blockade over that territory. That's about it. Do you expect Israel to allow them to import tanks and jets?
- tyre 1y ago
  Sorry, to be clear, you’re saying that proof of their freedom is that they could build tunnels to smuggle goods?
  - YZF 1y ago
    And build and train a large military force. And build an extensive tunnel network in the entirety of the Gaza strip. Complete control over every day to day aspect of their lives, government, healthcare, police force. Elections. Extensive weapons manufacturing. Control of the borders with Israel and Gaza. So yeah. I think we can say they had control.
    - fzeroracer 1y ago
      Israel has been blockading and controlling Gaza since the 90s. To argue that they've had complete control is just historically and factually wrong. Israel has been gradually tightening the screws on the region for decades.
      - YZF 1y ago
        Nobody has complete control over anything but the true story is that Israel withdrew in good faith wanting to give Palestinians a chance to build their own lives. Israel did exactly what all the good people here want it to do so badly. Stop the "occupation". Since the outcome of that doesn't fit the narrative (10's of thousands of rockets on Israel, suicide bombing attacks, Hamas taking over, leading to Oct 7th) then we need to do some mental gymnastics to somehow claim that despite Israel no longer occupying Gaza it somehow still was. The "tightening of the screws" is a result of Palestinians deciding to wage war against Israel, build rockets, fire them into civilian populations. It's really pretty simple. Palestinians want to destroy Israel. They have and had no interest having a "Singapore" in Gaza. I'm not sure how you get to the 90's. We are talking about the disengagement in 2005. I lived in Israel during this time and I know very well what the mood was. I've also seen interviews with people who were in the loop who say Ariel Sharon (who architected the withdrawal) sincerely wanted to see Palestinians succeed and use this as a blue print to also end the conflict in the west bank. International donors even bought equipment from Israel (like greenhouses) so they can leave it for the Palestinians who promptly proceeded to destroy them.
        jakelazaroff 1y ago
        Nobody has "complete control", sure, but there's a reason Gaza doesn't have an airport (destroyed by the IDF) and can't receive aid by sea (intercepted by the IDF). The latter happened as recently as this month; the IDF commandeered a boat delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza and arrested its passengers in international waters. https://mondoweiss.net/2025/06/israeli-forces-commandeer-aid-boat-led-by-greta-thunberg-on-its-way-to-gaza/ https://mondoweiss.net/2025/06/israeli-forces-commandeer-aid...

YZF 1y ago

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. The reasons the UN and others still regarded Gaza as under Israeli occupation are either political or technical. In practice when Israel left Gazans got full control. They had a border with Egypt, not to mention tunnels for smuggling goods under that border. They had enough control to build a large army, tunnels, rockets etc. I.e. they had control. They were able to send people to train in Iran. This anti-Israeli argument that somehow Israel dismantled its settlements and left but yet still "occupied" Gaza is nonsense. It does not stand any minimal scrutiny. Yes, as a result of Gazans making a choice to engage in war with Israel there was a blockade over that territory. That's about it. Do you expect Israel to allow them to import tanks and jets?

tyre 1y ago
Sorry, to be clear, you’re saying that proof of their freedom is that they could build tunnels to smuggle goods?
- YZF 1y ago
  And build and train a large military force. And build an extensive tunnel network in the entirety of the Gaza strip. Complete control over every day to day aspect of their lives, government, healthcare, police force. Elections. Extensive weapons manufacturing. Control of the borders with Israel and Gaza. So yeah. I think we can say they had control.
  - fzeroracer 1y ago
    Israel has been blockading and controlling Gaza since the 90s. To argue that they've had complete control is just historically and factually wrong. Israel has been gradually tightening the screws on the region for decades.
    - YZF 1y ago
      Nobody has complete control over anything but the true story is that Israel withdrew in good faith wanting to give Palestinians a chance to build their own lives. Israel did exactly what all the good people here want it to do so badly. Stop the "occupation". Since the outcome of that doesn't fit the narrative (10's of thousands of rockets on Israel, suicide bombing attacks, Hamas taking over, leading to Oct 7th) then we need to do some mental gymnastics to somehow claim that despite Israel no longer occupying Gaza it somehow still was. The "tightening of the screws" is a result of Palestinians deciding to wage war against Israel, build rockets, fire them into civilian populations. It's really pretty simple. Palestinians want to destroy Israel. They have and had no interest having a "Singapore" in Gaza. I'm not sure how you get to the 90's. We are talking about the disengagement in 2005. I lived in Israel during this time and I know very well what the mood was. I've also seen interviews with people who were in the loop who say Ariel Sharon (who architected the withdrawal) sincerely wanted to see Palestinians succeed and use this as a blue print to also end the conflict in the west bank. International donors even bought equipment from Israel (like greenhouses) so they can leave it for the Palestinians who promptly proceeded to destroy them.
      - jakelazaroff 1y ago
        Nobody has "complete control", sure, but there's a reason Gaza doesn't have an airport (destroyed by the IDF) and can't receive aid by sea (intercepted by the IDF). The latter happened as recently as this month; the IDF commandeered a boat delivering humanitarian aid to Gaza and arrested its passengers in international waters. https://mondoweiss.net/2025/06/israeli-forces-commandeer-aid-boat-led-by-greta-thunberg-on-its-way-to-gaza/ https://mondoweiss.net/2025/06/israeli-forces-commandeer-aid...